How Theater Can Change the World for Animals with Grace Howarth and Anastasia Bunce

[00:00:05] Jasmin Singer: So excited to chat with you, truly. I am such a giant fan of creative advocacy. And theater, as I was mentioning a moment ago, is my like first love, my giant big love, and veganism is my heartbeat, so you two are basically my best friends, even though you don't know it yet.

[00:00:27] Grace Howarth: Perfect, that's what we like to hear.

[00:00:29] Jasmin Singer: Excellent. Well, there's so many questions I have for you, so let's just start with this. It seems hard enough to start a new theater company, but seriously, very challenging to start one that is devoted to staging new work about veganism, animal ethics, and sustainability. So I'd love to know how you find your plays.

[00:00:50] Anastasia Bunce: Well, we're very lucky that Grace is our associate writer. So from the moment I met her, really, a lot of our plays are what Grace writes, which is a privilege and an honor.

We found there's a lot of vegans out there who really want to collaborate and there are a lot of vegan writers and writers generally who might not necessarily be vegan but are interested in climate change and come through that to veganism and animal ethics. So we've actually been really nicely surprised to find that there actually are a lot of creatives out there who are really desperate to engage with this work and also are kind of wondering where those people are. So we have found we're able to find that work. And another practical way basically, I'm sure you'll ask this later, but when we first sort of started, we were putting on these short scratch nights which we still do. And A Scratch Night, for anyone who doesn't know, is like an evening of short, bite sized plays, like 10 minutes long, and through doing that, it's a really accessible way for people to just submit plays with really, you know, no stakes, and put them on. And that's how we actually did Grace's play as well.

So yeah, starting off by just doing bite sized theater and then seeing where that grows. But we'll talk about that more later.

[00:01:54] Jasmin Singer: That's really cool. Did you have anything to add to that, Grace?

[00:01:58] Grace Howarth: I joined Patch Plays through an open call out, so Anastasia was the one who founded the company, and through one of their call outs, I kind of got involved. But yeah, no, there definitely are so many vegan creators out there who are kind of desperate for a platform. So it's been really lovely to see how it's developed, even though it's still quite a young company. To see how many passionate people who are out there who are either vegan or vegetarian, or who just care about the climate, it's been really lovely to see.

[00:02:30] Jasmin Singer: So, what are the requirements for the productions, regarding what might be called, like, ideological purity? Do you have any specific criteria that you abide by when you're putting together the plays?

[00:02:44] Anastasia Bunce: We purposely keep call outs quite broad. So as I touched on, the way we sort of commission new writing is through these scratch nights to begin with. And we use it as like a testing ground for people to bring whatever angle they have, the plays have to have some kind of connection of addressing climate change and or animal ethics.

So we don't say veganism as like the word for it, but inevitably we're bringing vegan creatives in through that, but then also keeping it open so that people who aren't vegan yet are able to still participate, and come to veganism through the work. So we keep it quite broad. We've had so many different plays, we had ones, you know, to do with fast fashion, to do with slaughterhouse industries, both of which, you know, Grace wrote and submitted to Scratch Nights.

We've also had more general, like, climate anxiety plays about young people, and their anxiety of wanting to save the world and how that manifests in university students.

We've had very different angles of those themes, but we keep it broad because it keeps it more creative rather than pinning it down to having to be specifically about one sort of topic. But for our main company shows, the three main shows we've done have all touched on veganism and veganism is a key theme in the work.

So yeah for the bigger scale productions It is important that that is addressed in the work.

[00:04:01] Jasmin Singer: And where do you stage them?

[00:04:04] Anastasia Bunce: So the Scratch Nights, we've done like all over London. So we're London based and we've done lots of different fringe theatre venues. We have a residency at The Glitch which was run by Vault Festival, which is an amazing company that really sadly has had to announce their closure because of lack of funding, which is devastating, because they really help support us as a company.

But their Glitch space is still running, so we are putting on these monthly scratch nights there, and artists can get involved. And lots of other different pub theatres in London. And our bigger scale shows, we took one to Edinburgh in August. We took a comedy called Meat Cute down to Edinburgh, and recently we had Grace's play Blood on Your Hands at Southwark Playhouse, which was an amazing experience because it was a very central London venue.

So yeah, so far, London and Edinburgh.

[00:04:48] Jasmin Singer: And I do want to go through the plays one by one, including the ones that you just mentioned. But before we do, you mentioned to me before we hit record that you actually founded this in 2020. So what was it like founding a theater company in the middle of a pandemic?

[00:05:08] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, kind of crazy, I and a friend, at the time were chatting and we met at the Finbergh Theatre, so we were both interns, and we were talking and we're both vegan and we were thinking, oh, we want to put shows on. Theatres closed down like we can't we were just complaining about everything being shut down because it was awful. And the restrictions had just lifted on outdoors events.

So it was September 2020 and you could gather outdoors in like bubbles of six so we thought you know let's just try and organize an event. So we did this first scratch night at Tide Tables, which is a vegetarian cafe in Richmond. And it was amazing and people were so desperate to see live theater and gather together because we hadn't done it for so long. So even though it was kind of a crazy idea to do it at that time, we found that actually it was a brilliant time to do it because there were so many artists desperate to work and so many audience members really deprived of being able to see any live entertainment.

So it was kind of a good time, in the end, to do it and then luckily somehow the timings of our plays worked really well because we then were able to take on other projects when the restrictions were easing up. So, somehow it worked.

[00:06:18] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I mean, I remember that was a time when everyone was trying to kind of push through boundaries in order to make creative works. Anyway, I was living in LA then and I was just cast in this TV series and they turned it into just a Zoom series. Like they made that part of the story that everyone was getting together on Zoom.

I don't really think it worked, but I really do give them props for trying. Like everyone was doing something. You're right. We were desperate for creativity. And that just goes to show you how completely dire it is that we have creative expression. So I want to hear about why you started this, and then we'll go through what the actual plays are, and talk a little bit about that, but tell me what was in your mind at that time.

[00:07:12] Anastasia Bunce: Well, I was 21 at the time, and I'd just finished studying theatre myself, and I really was eager to start directing work, so selfishly I was, you know, looking for opportunities, and there weren't any. And I wanted to start making my own work, so that was one part of it. And another part, which I think Grace can also agree with and talk about from her own experience, is being vegan, and wanting to be an animal rights activist in my own way, and finding my own path to it.

So fusing my passion for animal rights and veganism with theatre making is what inspired me to do it, because I thought, you know, I want to be a theatre maker, it's my biggest love in life, but how do I do it in a way that I feel is still achieving something beyond my own selfish desires to direct? Which is absolutely fine as well, but yeah, it was almost a way of fusing those two passions and, you know, getting people to think about topics that they don't want to through fun, entertaining ways, and finding that that's actually a really successful way to get people from so many different walks of life to engage with veganism who might never have before.

[00:08:18] Jasmin Singer: Grace, what was that like for you?

[00:08:21] Grace Howarth: Yeah, so when the lockdowns and everything were on, this was kind of before I knew of Patch Plays, so I think I had my first Zoom call with you guys kind of like in the second wave of lockdown, so it was a bit later on. But no, I definitely resonate with that thought of trying to find a way to bring your activism out through your creativity. When I first heard about Patch Plays, I was like, Oh my goodness, I need to be involved in this.

Like, it's just a combination of these things that I'm just so incredibly passionate about. So I'd done like a lot of theatre writing, kind of, on a low scale, lots of scratch notes, things like that beforehand, and then was kind of in the Zoom theater bubble of trying to keep the creativity going during that time.

And yeah, then I heard about Patch Plays, and I thought, gosh, how incredible that there's other vegan theater makers out there who want to put on work that's focusing on those themes explicitly. And yeah, it was just kind of a match made in heaven, really, because, for myself as a vegan, it just felt really important to stage those important stories.

And I hadn't beforehand come across any other creatives who had that as their main priority. So, yeah, it was just really incredible to, to connect and then obviously to keep on working together over the years. But I remember at the time when I first heard about Patch Plays, it just felt like one of those really special moments where your love for creativity and activism really combined and it was really special.

[00:09:54] Jasmin Singer: I bet. I mean, if the borders weren't closed, I probably would have moved to London when I heard about it. Grace, just sticking with you for a moment, what were you writing before you did this? I mean, just as a vegan, you know, I can relate, our audience can relate. We want veganism to be representative in some way of everything we do, everything we put out there, or at the very least we don't want to have anything to do with exploitative systems. So can you tell me a little bit more about what you were working on before this came into your life?

[00:10:25] Grace Howarth: Yeah, absolutely. So I had written quite a lot of short stories beforehand, because Anastasia and I are both the same age, so we'd both kind of just graduated university once the lockdowns happened. So I'd written lots of short stories, one of which focused on veganism, and I was kind of dipping my toes into the theatre world and did kind of these scratch nights through other theatre companies, and I'd written a play about fast fashion, which was kind of my first big project that focused on ethical themes. And then I had a radio play that I had on again just before the lockdown actually, which was about kind of gentrification and London living and kind of how that interlocked.

So yeah, I think themes of veganism had always come through my work and it was always something that obviously I was really passionate about, and I, I studied songwriting at university 'cause I, I was like, I wanna write musicals, , I wanna be a musical theater writer. So I, Yeah, I had written lots of songs kind of focused on the environment and yeah, I was working on different projects that looked at environmentalism.

But I suppose, I always wanted to write something that focused specifically on veganism, but it was just a case of finding the right project that could connect with people, and non vegans especially, in a way that they didn't think was too preachy or, you know, that kind of preachy vegan thing, which I hate, but it felt really important to me to find a work that connected with non vegan audiences and could be a tool for activism, without non vegans being put off by it being vegan, vegan, vegan.

I hadn't written an explicitly vegan piece beforehand, besides the short story, but, yeah, now, now it's a big part of my work.

[00:12:16] Jasmin Singer: Gosh, that's so cool. Yeah, I mean, I think that the arts in general have such an incredible power to convey messages that for some reason reach people in a safe way, like they don't feel their walls going up. They don't feel like they have to be defensive, like maybe if they were being leafleted or something like that.

Whereas if they're looking at a beautiful painting or watching theater or reading a novel and animal advocacy comes up or veganism comes up for some reason, they're there with you. Like they've opted in to experience it with the protagonist. Does that resonate with you, Grace?

[00:13:00] Grace Howarth: A hundred percent. Yeah, it's been kind of astonishing to see how true that is in a way through, I'm sure, like you say, we'll get into the specific projects later, but to see, especially in Blood on Your Hands, how so many non vegans and people who haven't thought about it at all have really connected with the main characters and through their story and their human story have really just gotten on board. And, you know, maybe they won't go away and be vegans overnight, but just to have people in the audience who usually might turn away from other forms of advocacy actually sitting in a room and sitting with this story for 90 minutes is such a rarity. And honestly you know, it's such a special thing to be able to connect with those audiences who might turn away from activists in the street or from documentaries but who are on board for this story, so it's really special.

[00:13:57] Jasmin Singer: Well, let's get into it. What is Blood on Your Hands? Tell us a description of the plot.

[00:14:03] Grace Howarth: Sure, yeah, so Blood on Your Hands is our most recent production, it's focused on the lives of two slaughterhouse workers, and it's set in a small town in rural Wales. And we follow an ex vet who's come over from Ukraine. It's set in 2022 in January. So just before the full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. And it focuses on this lead guy, Kostya, who's come over to try and find a better life for his family and ends up working in a slaughterhouse.

And he connects there with a young lad called Dan, who's grown up down the road, is a working class guy, he's kind of very happy go lucky sort of character, and it's the way that these two men form a friendship amidst this very bleak and brutal workplace and how they try and connect with each other despite all of their, you know, mental health issues and everything else that's brought on through the meat industry.

We meet these guys and we see their lives back at home and the people that they've had connections with, including a vegan activist character called Eden who protests outside the slaughterhouse. And yeah, we just follow them and we learn more about their lives and the struggles that they go through in their line of work.

It's a way of telling that vegan story through a human lens.

[00:15:23] Jasmin Singer: I understandd that you've gotten a lot of positive attention and might be producing a film version. Is that right?

[00:15:28] Grace Howarth: It is!

[00:15:30] Anastasia Bunce: Yes, that's the plan. So, in the next two months, which is kind of mad. But yeah, a lot of the feedback was interesting because people really responded to these guys friendship and, you know, wanted to have more of them, really, and a lot of people were saying how well it would work on screen. So Grace and I thought, let's give it a go, why not do it as a short film, and see where that could take us in a different format.

[00:15:52] Jasmin Singer: How exciting. I mean, what a cool thing to be able to elevate one creative project to sort of morph into another one. Congratulations. I can't wait to see it.

[00:16:01] Grace Howarth: Oh, Thank you.

We're both so grateful. So, so, so excited.

[00:16:05] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I bet. I'm excited. I can't even imagine if I were you. So tell us about Meat Cute.

[00:16:12] Anastasia Bunce: Yes, so Meat Cute, is a one woman comedy written by Bibi Lucille, our other associate artist, and my cousin, who's also vegan. She wrote it in 2021. We toured it all across London and then took it to Edinburgh. And it follows this 24 year old woman as she tries to veganize her Tinder date.

So it's farcical, and it's showing how this woman is trying to use her sexuality, essentially, for her animal activism. And it's just a ball of laughs, and it's a way of getting people to think about it from a very different angle. And, you know, most people who came to it, not vegan, coming along to see a silly comedy, which it is for about 50 minutes, and then there's a bit of a darker turn towards the end.

So yeah, we found comedy to be an equally effective way of getting people to think about animal activism, really.

[00:17:00] Jasmin Singer: That is so friggin cool. And when you say Edinburgh, were you at Fringe? Or was there...

[00:17:06] Anastasia Bunce: We were at the festival for four weeks, so this was August 2023 at the Gilded Balloon, which was, yeah, incredible to be there for the whole month.

[00:17:14] Jasmin Singer: Oh my gosh. Amazing. I love what you just said about comedy because it's such heavy stuff, right? And like, a lot of our listeners will tell us, you know, that they're struggling to know what's going on behind closed doors to animals and obviously so many other countless injustices. So Anastasia, tell me a little bit more about your view of comedy as sort of a reprieve from all of that while still getting across the message.

[00:17:44] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, I think it works on two levels. I think there's a lot of truth in humour, firstly, so I think it's actually, comedy's been used for centuries as a way to get political messages across, in a softer way, and it does put people's guards down. So people coming in at first, you know, this woman, the character's called Lena, she's a mess herself, so she's poking fun at herself.

She's representing the vegan activists, and she's not on stage sort of glorifying herself and criticizing all the meat eating men. She's criticizing them and herself, as we see stand up comedians do. So it's effective from that point of view of sort of evening the playing field, which I think allows people to soften a little and open their ears.

Yeah, I think watching comedy can relax you as an audience member as well. So I think people might be scared coming in to see a show if they know it's about veganism, if they know there's some kind of moral agenda to it. So when we were putting the show on we were, you know, not hiding the fact it was there in the synopsis, but we weren't putting that at the forefront. And really saying it's about being a mess in your 20s and trying to find yourself, which was at the heart of the show as well.

So yeah, I think comedy and drama equally effective forms, but have a different way of getting people to engage. And it's important with comedy as well. When Bibi and I were doing the show, it was really important for us to treat comedy just as seriously as we would Blood on Your Hands, for example, because if you don't treat it seriously, it's not going to be funny and it's not going to ring true, so you've still got to give it sort of equal weight.

But yeah, in a nutshell, I think it's just a good way of getting people to listen and not feel judged.

[00:19:19] Jasmin Singer: Grace, do you have any follow ups there about your favorite way of writing? Like, do you have a specific genre that really calls to you when you're putting words to page?

[00:19:30] Grace Howarth: I really enjoy, actually, the freedom of, kind of, darting between multiple genres. So one of our shows called Birdies Adventures in the Animal Kingdom was a kids musical about you know, veganism, but told through an obviously very, very, very different lens than Blood on Your Hands.

So actually to be able to do one very gritty drama, which, obviously has a lot of darkness, but also, yeah, I think comedy was also important in Blood on Your Hands as well to a small degree because, during the process of writing it struck me how hard it would be for an audience to sit through 90 minutes of just misery and bad news and kind of the, the harsh reality of the meat industry.

So I was very conscious when writing to actually have a lot of comedy interspersed in Blood on Your Hands as well, which kind of came through the two main characters and they're kind of bantering about. Yeah, I really enjoy being able to be versatile with it and to go from one extreme of really dark, gritty drama to really light hearted kids musical, everyone singing and dancing and having an amazing time.

A lot of people have been like, wait, you wrote both shows? I'm like, I did!

[00:20:47] Jasmin Singer: That's so cute. Yeah, tell me more about Birdie's Adventures in the Animal Kingdom, a little bit about the plot. I'm curious.

[00:20:54] Grace Howarth: Yeah, so, so Birdie's Adventures is about a little girl called Birdie, and she lives in London with her dad, and she's just lost her mother, and it's kind of this family story at the beginning of the show. And then she meets a magical talking robin who takes her on an adventure around the animal kingdom, um, where she meets loads of animals, and they're all telling her about their individual struggles. So, you know, we meet a turtle who's talking about plastic, a polar bear who's talking about global warming. And then the one thing that sets it apart from other shows about climate change is we then look at farming and the dairy industry and she meets like a little cow who's lost her daughter and, it felt really important to incorporate that into it as well. But yeah, it's just really, really light hearted, told in a very accessible way for kids. And it was just really such a joy to bring that to young people who will be the generation that faces the worst of the climate crisis in the future, and give them something that's really empowering and joyful, as, a piece of art.

[00:21:59] Anastasia Bunce: When we put the show on at Harrow Arts Centre, we got a really funny review on this thing called Audience Club, so where people can leave reviews anonymously, I suppose. And, it was this grandmother who was really angry, just like, Oh, I can't believe that, seeing this show has made my granddaughter want to go vegan now.

You know, how dare you? And we were really thrilled.

[00:22:18] Grace Howarth: Yeah, it was like the best review we could have got.

[00:22:21] Jasmin Singer: That's amazing. Oh my God. That's so fun. By the way, my, I have many companion animals and I've had many companion animals in the past, but my soulmate, little old Chihuahua was named Birdie. So I have like, such as like, it's just making my heart soar to hear about all of this. And I just want you to know while you're telling the story of this little kid, I'm picturing my little old blind Chihuahua to it.

So I took a different tact in my head, but it's still working.

[00:22:54] Anastasia Bunce: I'll have to do a version with your chihuahua.

[00:22:56] Jasmin Singer: You absolutely must.

So Anastasia, how would you describe the target audience? I mean, it sounds like you're all over the map in terms of like comedy and drama and kids, but overall, are you trying to reach non vegans, fellow vegans, both?

[00:23:12] Anastasia Bunce: We want to reach everyone who will come and see the shows. This is why we put on such different shows as well, why we had the comedy, why we had the musical, why we had the drama. So with Meat Cute, we saw a lot of young women coming to it because of the nature of what it was about. And then with Birdie, obviously it was children.

And with Blood in Your Hands, it was really interesting to see that the demographic was really, all over the place from young to much older at Southwark Playhouse. We had a lot of non vegans, but equally a huge amount of vegan support, which is crucial for us for word of mouth and momentum. So, yeah, essentially we do want to target non vegans who may have never thought about veganism before and then you know, they start thinking about it and start reflecting on how they can be a part of a better world after seeing the shows, but without the vegan support we also wouldn't be where we are now, because it keeps that word of mouth going and, you know, largely is why people have heard of us at any scale.

So keeping it broadly open, so far it's been London, and younger age groups, largely people who are, you know, sort of already engaged with the arts, but we've seen that broaden with our run at Southwark Playhouse, which has been really wonderful.

[00:24:21] Jasmin Singer: And you told me about that hilarious story of the grandmother, but I'm wondering if you have any other stories about either how non vegans have reacted or perhaps, maybe reviews that you've gotten?

[00:24:33] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, I mean, reviews are always a mixed bag, because we're aware that most critics are not vegan, who are going to be seeing the shows. So on a subconscious level, we'll probably be feeling on some level slightly attacked, possibly. So we have had a mixed bag. Some reviewers really get it, and I remember with Meat Cute, it was really pleasant to see that a lot of reviewers were actually saying, oh, now we're thinking about veganism, rather than shutting it down.

We haven't had anything so far in reviews that have, like, not understood what we're trying to do and have, for the most part, that they get it, which is great. And I'm glad that, touch wood, maybe it's coming, but no one out of critics has, like, you know, said that we're being preachy or too on the nose with things, which is good, because that's, I think, the main thing for us is to make sure that the art we're telling still isn't black and white in that approach.

But we've definitely had a mixed bag. Some people get it, some people don't, and especially when you're doing shows that aren't afraid to be bold and kind of brutal in the themes, you know, you've got to go in expecting that. So yeah, we've had good and bad reviews all over the place, but we're always ready for that

[00:25:42] Jasmin Singer: I can relate to sort of feeling excited, but also maybe a little bit nervous to throw your creative work into a mainstream and see if it will be accepted as a creative work or if it will be perceived as just, I don't know, like another activist's brochure, you know. And, and it sounds like you have really been able to rise above that.

And it sounds like people have really taken it in as what you intended, which is just like a damn good show.

[00:26:14] Anastasia Bunce: Well, this is the thing, it helps having really strong writing. So Grace's writing is nuanced and very subtle and it doesn't come across as political theater in inverted commas, which is why I think people respond well to it because it is focused on human stories. And out of that, of course, we're looking at the themes of the cruelty of slaughterhouse work and the effects of that on the people who are working there.

But it always comes across, I think, to me and to audiences and what I've heard from people watching it, as empathetic to the human being's experience. I think that's why it works.

[00:26:47] Jasmin Singer: Oh, wow. I have to see this. I need to make a trip out there sometime soon.

[00:26:52] Anastasia Bunce: Come to London!

[00:26:53] Jasmin Singer: I will, I will. This amazing. So I know that speaking of coming to London, I've been there several times. I'm obsessed. And I know that veganism is more popular in the UK than it is here in the US. Is there also pushback from people who think it's just trendy or woke to have this out there?

Are you able to show, no, we're the real deal? We're like, We're putting this out there from our lived experience, from our hearts and, and, our worldview.

[00:27:21] Grace Howarth: I mean, we haven't come across any of that criticism yet. I'm sure, you know, as with all things vegan and things that kind of do have a political slant to them, there are going to be people that just automatically don't want to hear about it. I remember we got a retweet from Chris Packham, who's like a vegan activist sort of celebrity.

And I remember looking at some of the comments were like, haha lol, like, what are these guys doing? But it was so low level and just like, so tiny, but yeah, I imagine that there's going to be people who aren't interested and who are going to be closed off to it, but luckily we haven't had it on a large scale.

Yeah, I feel like people who actually come and see the show are just very open to it and very, ready to sit there and ready to watch it and be involved in the process of it all. So, luckily, fingers crossed, touch wood, we haven't had it so far. I don't know if you've ever heard any from Meat Cute or anything like that.

[00:28:20] Anastasia Bunce: Not that I've heard to my face, maybe people say things, but I haven't.

[00:28:24] Grace Howarth: Maybe behind our backs, yeah.

[00:28:26] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, I do, I do think though it helps that Like, I think work connected to climate change is incredible, and, you know, I'm equally passionate about that, but there, I think, are a lot of people, you know, younger theatre creators who are engaged with climate change, but not necessarily thinking about it in connection to veganism. So I think that helps with us not getting the label of trying to be trendy or woke, because we actually are vegan, and we are connecting it, and, you know, the proof is in the pudding. It's not just, you know, talking about not using plastic straws, you know, don't eat fish as well.

So it's sort of addressing it overall rather than just choosing one element of that, so I think that helps.

[00:29:03] Jasmin Singer: Mm hmm.

[00:29:04] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah.

[00:29:05] Jasmin Singer: Are your actors in your company, or do you hold auditions for each production?

[00:29:10] Anastasia Bunce: We hold auditions for each production. We're lucky to have worked with some of the same actors over the years. So naturally, you know, if we meet people we love working with, we do, you know, want to bring them back on board. So we have like a pool of actors who we've worked with multiple times, but on each project we also bring in new actors, so we've got the best of both worlds really.

[00:29:29] Jasmin Singer: And what do you envision for the future? Like, Grace, tell me a little bit about either some projects that you have up your sleeve or maybe some projects that you haven't started writing yet, but we will record you saying it and so therefore you will have accountability for the rest of your life.

What do you want to write that you haven't?

[00:29:50] Grace Howarth: Well, okay, pressure's on now, because if in one year, I'll be like, Oh no, I said I was going to write it now.

[00:29:56] Jasmin Singer: right.

[00:29:57] Grace Howarth: Well, I suppose the big dream for Blood On Your Hands is to eventually do a TV mini series with it. That would be just, like, the ultimate, ultimate dream. So I would love to do, like, a six part drama about Blood on Your Hands.

I'm currently writing it into a novel, so we'll see how that goes. It's been really wonderful to be in that novel writing headspace recently, so that's kind of nearly done. So hopefully by a year's time that will be all done and dusted and who knows where it will be.

Playwriting wise, yeah, I really want to write another play. I've got a couple of things in the pipeline that are just kind of fomenting, if that's the right word, just some ideas. There's one thing that I want to look at that kind of looks at fishing towns in the UK and how that world kind of stands opposite against ocean conservation. Which is very, very early days on that, but it's just something I think would be interesting because there's a lot of culture of sort of British fishing towns and how, The mindset of those places is, yeah, it's kind of a rich pool of UK culture, I suppose, and kind of the UK culture is like, oh, you know, the old fishing towns, that's what our industry was based off.

So I think it'd be really interesting to have a look into that world. But yeah, I'd love to write another musical as well. I just want to write so many things. But yeah, I guess the novel is the main thing at the moment. And then once we've done the short film, and we've got that out to sort of film festivals, our big, big dream with it is to get it turned into a mini series.

So fingers crossed, we'll we'll do everything we can to get there.

[00:31:40] Jasmin Singer: That is so exciting. All of those things. And what about you, Anastasia? What do you want to see come about in your theater company?

[00:31:50] Anastasia Bunce: Well, definitely Grace's new fishing play. I'm glad to hear we've got our 2025 programming underway.

[00:32:00] Grace Howarth: I'll get on it.

[00:32:00] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, exactly, I can't wait to see the first round. I would love to, yeah, as Grace has said, see the future development of Blood on Your Hands. I think we're both very passionate about making that happen this year and still going with it. I would love, both of us have been talking about this, to have like a festival, have our own vegan theatre festival where we connect with other artists who want to put on their plays as well and sort of host them, which would be a huge undertaking. We'd need tons of funding for it, but I'd love to do that, I'd love to produce that at some point next year, hopefully. And to keep growing sort of the audience base for that as well. And to also, you know, we're branching out into film now as well. So Patch Plays is a theatre company, but we've got Blood on Your Hands will be made this year and Meat Cute was also actually adapted into a short film.

So I'm excited to broaden into the areas of film and almost transform Patch Plays into a theatre and film production company. So yeah, those are my main two sort of goals for the next year.

[00:32:59] Jasmin Singer: Wow, wonderful. That is so cool. Well, I am so excited to chat with both of you like I told you this is a subject that is so near and dear to my heart and so many of our listeners as well. I know they're constantly asking us to talk to more creatives who are using their art form to change the world for animals and you two are definitely doing that.

So, can you please tell us how we can follow your work online and support your efforts? Or maybe in person, we have a lot of listeners in the UK as well.

[00:33:30] Anastasia Bunce: Yeah, absolutely. We're on all social media on, Instagram we're patch plays theater, and Facebook and X. So we post mostly on Instagram with, all the shows that we're doing where you can get the tickets, where you can come and see the shows. and if you're artists as well, how to get in touch with us to collaborate with your ideas.

Like I said, we have the monthly scratch night and that's the way we connect with people, to start these artistic connections, and we also have a crowdfunder for our short film, so we can't not mention that, but we could share the link with that as well.

[00:34:02] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, go ahead. Tell us, what is it?

[00:34:04] Anastasia Bunce: Oh my god, we need to get it to, get it to hand. It's a link! Shall I send it to you?

[00:34:08] Jasmin Singer: Sure. We'll add it to the show notes, for this episode.

[00:34:12] Anastasia Bunce: Amazing! Yeah, basically, as a company, essentially a lot of our shows have been funded by public donations, which has been amazing from the vegan community. So you can follow us online. And we've got a website, I forgot to say. www. patchplays. com So you can check us out there as well.

[00:34:28] Jasmin Singer: Can you get to the fundraiser from there as well?

[00:34:32] Anastasia Bunce: Yes, so, there will be links for our Scratch Nights, which are fundraisers as well, and we'll have the crowdfunder link there, and all information, generally, for tickets for our shows are on the website, and on the Instagram. So either of those.

[00:34:46] Jasmin Singer: Wonderful. Well, stick around because I want to chat with you both a little bit more for our bonus content, but thank you Anastasia and Grace so much for sharing your insights with us today. I could not be more excited about the work you're doing and I will be championing you from the sidelines.

[00:35:02] Anastasia Bunce: Thank you so much for having us.

[00:35:04] Grace Howarth: Oh, thank you.