Veganizing Cyprus with Farah Shammas

[00:00:06] Mariann Sullivan: I am so excited as well. You just seem to be the classic person that Our Hen House always wants to reach. A person who found out what was happening, got horrified, unlike the rest of the world, looked around and thought, “Well, what can I do?” and not, you know, give up my entire life and really make changes with it, but we'll get into all of that.

And before we even get into veganism or any of that, I'd just like you to set the scene a little. You know, we're in the U. S., a lot of our listeners are in the U. S., and we have some European listeners, who probably are more familiar with Cyprus, but I bet a lot of people here in the U. S, they're not. So can you just set the scene a little bit, kind of give us a tour of Cyprus, tell us what it's like?

[00:00:41] Farah Shammas: Absolutely. Well, Cyprus is a Mediterranean island. We are the third largest island in the Mediterranean, but we're still small compared to the U. S. especially. We are only about a million people. Yeah, so, Sicily and Sardinia are bigger than us, but we're bigger than Crete and any of the Greek islands, and we're the Eastern Mediterranean.

So kind of closer to Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, but we're not involved at all in any of the Middle Eastern conflicts that go on, because people often see the map and see Cyprus at the edge of it. But we're a peaceful island and we're south of the island. We're Greek-speaking. I won't get into politics because the northern part is occupied by Turkey and...

[00:01:29] Mariann Sullivan: right, we don't, I mean, I know that Cyprus has a complicated political history, so we don't, Yeah, that's for another podcast.

[00:01:35] Farah Shammas: Exactly, not for this one. But it's a beautiful island, amazing seas, and the nice thing about Cyprus is that, even though we're small, each town and area is completely different. So you get the turquoise, almost Hawaiian-style beaches. You get crystal clear blue seas.

You get rocky cliffs, white cliffs with a different color water. We can go skiing in the mountains and within 14 minutes, we're at the beach.

[00:02:04] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, that happens in California too. That's crazy, I had no idea that you had mountains like that.

[00:02:09] Farah Shammas: Yeah, we can ski here. So, it's really fun and everything is like an hour's drive, you know. So, win-win.

[00:02:16] Mariann Sullivan: So, I mean, I know that Cyprus has become a big tourism destination. And of course, that's the business that you're in. Is the tourism there all very high-end? I mean, I think your hotel is very high end, very luxurious. Is it all like that? Is there a variety?

[00:02:30] Farah Shammas: So, we do have a variety. I would say we probably have less of a variety than we did in years gone by, 80s and 90s, and early 2000s. We are definitely a more expensive destination, but again, it depends where you're going in Cyprus. So, Limassol where I am is more expensive. It's very plush.

It's got towers, has beautiful beaches, it's got great shopping, and really high end restaurants. With places like Matsuhisa, like Nobu Matsuhisa and, LPM and our own branded restaurants like Golden Monkey. Anyway, loads of things. But then there's, you know, the more idyllic areas of Cyprus, smaller, less expensive.

There's also a lot of agro-tourism and it depends when you come. So if you come in July and August, when all the kids are on vacation in Europe or in the world, of course, it's more expensive. But if you come in winter season, and when I say winter, it's like 26 degrees. Beautiful, green. It's not cold and you can pay next to nothing to come here and enjoy the same five-star facilities.

So, it's definitely got something for everyone.

[00:03:41] Mariann Sullivan: It really sounds lovely. I'm suspecting from your accent that maybe you didn't grow up there. Is that right?

[00:03:47] Farah Shammas: That's right, yeah. I'm British Lebanese. My mother's British, actually with a German father, so a complete mix. And my dad is Lebanese, but again with a Syrian father, so a mixture, hence my Arabic name and then my English accent. So, I grew up a little bit here, but predominantly in the UK, educated in the UK system.

And I went to boarding school from the age of 12, and I went to university there. I did a small stint in Cornell as well.

[00:04:17] Mariann Sullivan: Oh, I, I teach at Cornell.

[00:04:19] Farah Shammas: Oh, do you? I didn't know that. I've listened to a few of your podcasts, but I did not know that. That's so nice.

[00:04:25] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. I teach animal law.

[00:04:27] Farah Shammas: I came over for a PDP. What's it called? Professional Ed Diploma. Yeah. It was nice. It's really nice. That's so nice you're there.

Wow. Animal law. How interesting.

[00:04:37] Mariann Sullivan: All right. So, that's about Cyprus. That's about you, a little bit of you. Now tell us about the hotel. You mentioned that this is the high end. This is the luxury area of Cyprus. So this is your family's hotel. Is that right?

And so tell us about it and of course, then we'll get to like what you have been able to accomplish there on the vegan end.

[00:04:57] Farah Shammas: Thank you. So, in short, we opened this hotel in 1987, quite a while ago, we originally were Sheraton Limassol, then we broke away from the Sheraton Group in 96, and launched as St. Raphael Resort. We are a five star luxury Hotel and Marina. We have eight restaurants here and we've won many different awards in Europe and worldwide.

However, we're a family owned but also family-orientated hotel. Not meaning we cater just for families, but meaning our staff are very much part of our family. So we're not a corporate owned hotel, we're not stuffy. I like to think we're very good value for money. While we are five star, we're definitely not the priciest five star on the island and you really get to experience great Mediterranean hospitality when you come here at affordable prices.

[00:05:51] Mariann Sullivan: Sounds delightful. So tell us about, well, maybe go back a step and let's talk about your vegan story. So how did this all happen? My understanding, it wasn't that long ago, right?

[00:06:02] Farah Shammas: So, I've been vegan for seven years, and I was a pescetarian for ten years before.

[00:06:09] Mariann Sullivan: So you were leaning in that direction and finally got there. So how did it all happen?

[00:06:15] Farah Shammas: How did it happen? So good question. I grew up eating quite a Mediterranean diet, which is known to be quite healthy. But the Lebanese version of the Mediterranean diet is quite meat dependent.

So even when we have beans, there'll be like lamb thrown in it, or tuna on the side, or meat in some way. And I grew up thinking that that was normal and that was fine. And even my British side, you know, my grandparents survived the Second World War. So they were very much, it was an animal eating culture.

But for some reason, without being forced to by my family, I did lean into my Greek Orthodox religion, which is a Christian faith that, during the fasting period, so the Lenten period before Easter, we fast from animal products. And I was probably about 15 or maybe even younger when I started doing that.

And that's a 50-day period before Easter. So it's quite a long time. And, yeah, nobody forced me and no one was even really doing it in my family, but I just felt I wanted to do that. And if I'm honest, I got sick every year, like really sick. Like, I felt sluggish or tired, and then, probably in my 20s, I developed IBS, not because of that, but during the fasting period, I was, you know, would get really bad IBS attacks and, basically I was doing it all wrong.

I was like a junk food vegan while I was fasting. And so after that, I started having just fish in my diet when I was fasting and I didn't, I felt okay and I didn't get any side effects. So I thought, oh well, I've hit the nail on the head. This is the perfect diet. And when,

[00:08:06] Mariann Sullivan: Junk food and fish.

[00:08:08] Farah Shammas: Well, not really junk food, but yes, not as healthy.

I would say, yeah, it was salads. It was healthier, but yeah, and some fish. So I thought, and also it's so convenient for us all, before we've had our eyes opened, you know, oh, well, fish don't have, they're not sentient beings.

[00:08:24] Mariann Sullivan: Fish was the last thing I, I stopped eating as well.

[00:08:27] Farah Shammas: Yeah, and you know, it's, yeah, it's fine and I'm healthy and dah, dah, dah. So, life, you know, mulled along like that.

And then, I just started, I think educating myself much more on healthy diets when my eldest child was born. She's now 11. And I was given a piece of paper by a pediatrician, who's a lovely man, literally sponsored by two of the biggest brands. I don't think I have to say their names, but we probably can all guess who they are, within the baby world.

And, um, it had on it at eight months to give my child, like mashed up, blended ham, and I don't know what carb. And I was like, well, something's wrong here. And I questioned the doctor and I said, how can you give me this piece of paper advising me to give my child a carcinogen? The World Health Organization at this point has stated that red meat and processed meat are carcinogens.

And there was other things on this list of my doctor telling me what to feed my child that I just knew instinctively was so wrong. And he was like, well, this is what I know. At least he admitted it because we all know that doctors don't have all the training on nutrition that we sometimes believe they do.

He's like, this is what I know. This is what I've been told. You know, maybe you know more than me. Maybe you'll find out more than me. This is it. So I went away and I really started getting so into nutrition and, I just started learning more and more and more about it. And then finally that led me to Cornell to the Colin T. Campbell course, that was available online as well with eCornell. And, I'd already done a hotel course with Cornell before that. So I've kept in touch with their newsletters.

[00:10:13] Mariann Sullivan: Cornell has the big hotel school.

[00:10:15] Farah Shammas: Yeah, so that's why I came back in, oh, 2008, I

[00:10:19] Mariann Sullivan: I just put that together.

[00:10:21] Farah Shammas: Yeah, yeah, that's why I was there. And then, but then I found this online one.

I was like, perfect. So, at that point, I think I'd already watched the documentaries, read the books, and I was like, Okay, maybe I don't want to go fully vegan or fully plant-based, but I want to be super healthy. I also have autoimmune, I have psoriasis, which I had very bad flare-ups as well after my first child.

So I was like, okay, so I started to get more into health and that's maybe different. So my interest in veganism, it wasn't so much at the time for animals or the planet. It was more like falling into it because of health.

[00:10:57] Mariann Sullivan: I feel like we all come into it from one direction and then discover everything

[00:11:01] Farah Shammas: I think so, that's what I tell people now. We all come, and there's three main reasons usually that people come into it, but then ultimately when you're in it, it's for the animals. What, you know, then, obviously health and the planet is so important, but why inflict suffering? Anyway, we'll get into that as well.

So I then, decided during this course thinking I'm super healthy. I realized, oh, well, fish actually is not even good for me and I can live without it. I then went I would say plant based for a year, I didn't want to, like, say vegan. I wasn't living a holistically vegan life. I didn't feel ready to be stereotyped like that in case it wasn't what I was even going for.

I just kind of fell into it. And after a year, I was like, I'm vegan, and I literally then changed my whole lifestyle. Actually, yeah, and then I just started to cook vegan, which then became a brand I launched on Facebook, which is my Cook Vegan page, or group. And yeah, and then from there I started slowly implementing more and more vegan meals, plant-based ideas, sustainable, logical recipes, and methods and strategies into the hotel. And it took a couple of, well more, it's work in progress, but it took a good couple of years to get the team on board.

[00:12:25] Mariann Sullivan: What kind of reactions did you have? Did they think you were nuts?

[00:12:28] Farah Shammas: Yeah, absolutely. Everybody thought I was loopy. They were like, “Whoo, she's lost it.”

[00:12:32] Mariann Sullivan: It's a good thing you’re family-owned the hotel.

[00:12:34] Farah Shammas: Yeah, I probably would have been kicked out.

To be honest, my dad, I think, still thinks I'm a bit nuts, if I'm honest. I think he didn't really realize that I was turning a whole restaurant vegan until after it was done. And then he was like, you're, that's insane. And we had to fight on board level for it to remain vegan.

[00:12:53] Mariann Sullivan: So, I mean, but we haven't gotten to that yet. So let's talk about turning, turning an entire rest. So you started incorporating what, like vegan options. You have a number of restaurants and you started incorporating vegan options? Is that where you started in the other ones until you got to this point where you managed to pull off this entire vegan restaurant?

[00:13:12] Farah Shammas: Yeah, I think I started to, well, the one restaurant that did become vegan, it kind of went on the same journey I went into, so it became a healthy living restaurant, but it still had fish on the menu, but it was no processed sugar, you know, dairy, you know, I was like slowly getting into that and then when I saw I'd established it to a point that it was doing well enough like that, I then just went, right, let's just do it completely and I turned it vegan Yeah, I mean, most of our clients, and I think a lot of vegan restauranteurs will agree with this. I mean, the majority of my clients are not vegan, they're people coming in because they're, you know, inquisitive, because they want a light meal or a healthy meal, they want to learn more about it, or often they're accompanying a vegan or vegetarian friend who's taken them there.

But, we have repeaters that come back that aren't vegan. And I think our main key that it works is that we're a vegan restaurant for non vegans. And we do have, whatever people think about that or not, the Beyond and the Moving Mountain options. So if I have a meat eater that's been dragged there, they can have their greasy burger, but if I've got the plant-based advocate or, you know, somebody who wants a delicious plant-based meal, I actually have really gourmet, for a beach restaurant as well, it's gourmet cuisine served in this idyllic setting. We even have like celeriac steaks and Oh, just, yeah, just delicious food. Oreo muffins.

[00:14:49] Mariann Sullivan: I just think that is exactly the sweet spot for vegan food. Those are my favorite vegan restaurants. The ones that are healthy-ish, you can go very healthy at them, if that's your mood. You can go pretty indulgent at them if that's your mood. And you can also, which is usually my mood, hit somewhere in between.

[00:15:07] Farah Shammas: Exactly.

[00:15:07] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, give those options.

[00:15:09] Farah Shammas: Exactly. Because you don't want to be, oh, I'm vegan, and flick around some kale. I mean, that's delicious sometimes, but.

[00:15:15] Mariann Sullivan: I like a nice kale salad.

[00:15:17] Farah Shammas: You know, we all do, but we don't want to eat that every time we're out. And equally, we don't want to eat a stodgy, you know, mushroom-based coconut pasta.

We want a variety like anyone else. And that's what we offer. And then, yeah, and then I think, I'm not sure which stage both of them correlated, but the guideline for the whole hotel is every single restaurant has to have at least 30 percent plant-based menu options.

[00:15:45] Mariann Sullivan: That's amazing! All right, so you mentioned that, well, are most of your diners hotel guests or people from other places or people who are staying in other hotels or locals or who?

[00:15:59] Farah Shammas: In the hotel, the restaurants we have in the hotel, the majority, I mean, the bigger percentage is hotel guests, but we get outsiders in all our restaurants. At Seashells, I would say it's about...

[00:16:11] Mariann Sullivan: that's the vegan restaurant, Seashells?

[00:16:13] Farah Shammas: That's the vegan restaurant, it's called Seashells Healthy Living. It's probably about 60 percent hotel guests, 40 percent outsiders.

[00:16:20] Mariann Sullivan: Okay. And is it part of the kind of the vegan scene in Cyprus? I mean, is there like, are there vegans in Cyprus, and do all of them know where all vegan restaurants are?

[00:16:29] Farah Shammas: exactly, we're not, we're not a massive group yet, but there are definitely vegans. There's a lot more vegetarians. There's pescetarians. There's many people who don't quite understand fully what veganism is and claim that they're vegans, but they're actually just half-hearted vegetarians, but, you know, at least they're doing their bit.

It's quite funny though when you hear them say, yeah, Oh, I'm vegan too. And then can I have mayonnaise and eggs with that? And, you know, yeah, I'll just have chicken. I only eat chicken once a month.

[00:17:04] Mariann Sullivan: In one way it's gratifying that they want to identify as vegan, but it's so annoying that they don't know what that means.

[00:17:12] Farah Shammas: I know, I know. Yeah,

[00:17:15] Mariann Sullivan: But it does indicate that it's kind of got a, you know, a certain style to it that people want to identify with. Like, you must, I mean, I'm sure you get visitors, visitors, certainly from all over Europe and probably from all over the world to some extent.

[00:17:29] Farah Shammas: Yes, I mean, yeah, we do.

[00:17:31] Mariann Sullivan: Do you sense any kind of growing awareness of and appreciation for vegan food?

I mean, you said most people aren't vegan, but are they more drawn to it than they used to be?

[00:17:40] Farah Shammas: I think so, and I think we're seeing more and more flexitarians, people who will eat quite a few meals a week that are fully plant based, or even be predominantly plant based and have the odd meal that, you know, has an animal product in it. So we're seeing more and more like that. We also get a huge amount of vegetarians, and especially, Indian vegetarians or Indians based in the UK or in Europe, that book here specifically for that.

And then we get a lot of people booking that maybe have one person within their group or their family that have intolerances, which could be dairy or fish or anything else. And that come here because they know that we having like what's the expression? I can't think in English. Um, doing what we preach?

[00:18:28] Mariann Sullivan: Practice what we preach?

[00:18:29] Farah Shammas: Practice what we preach. Thank you. So having a fully vegan restaurant shows that we are there to cater for different needs. And we do take that really, you know, we've even got like one guest. They've been coming for years and, you know, they were young when we opened and they were coming and now they're elderly and we mash up their favorite food for them so they can still eat it, you know, and things like that. So it is important to us. So we get people from all over and it's exciting. It's really nice. And we even get people from the States because of my Facebook group Cook Vegan. I've had quite a few people who've like run up to me and like, “Oh, we follow you,” and, you know, “We came to this hotel for the food,” and it's so nice. Yeah.

[00:19:13] Mariann Sullivan: We're not a food podcast and I don't like to dwell on food, but here you are and you're making all this great food. So just tell us a few of the highlights, a few of your favorite dishes.

[00:19:22] Farah Shammas: You know what? I won't bore you too much. I've got so many, and I love them all. And as you said, it's nice to be able to have the loaded, guilty treats and food, and then the super healthy, and something in between. And you've got it in the show notes anyway. I've got a club out there that I share recipes.

I've got loads of recipes on CookVegan. At all their website of the hotel, people can see. But, my latest favorites are definitely, our Oreo cupcake and…

[00:19:50] Mariann Sullivan: Oh, come on.

[00:19:51] Farah Shammas: Uh, oh my goodness, it's so good. A celeriac, steak that I mentioned.

[00:19:57] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, that I'm interested in. I don't really know a lot about celeriac. I think I've had it, but that's new to me. So

[00:20:02] Farah Shammas: It's an interesting taste. It's really good. We've also got a watermelon steak, that looks like tuna and it's got nori on the side and it's so good. Um, and then I love, we do, um, at the main hotel, artichokes in this creamy sauce, and it's just delicious over rice. And we've got a Thai restaurant with six chefs from Thailand.

It's authentic Thai food, and we all know, Thai does great vegan options. So in that restaurant, we have some amazing dishes, and my favorite is the tofu panang.

[00:20:35] Mariann Sullivan: It all sounds fabulous. Speaking of chefs, how do you deal with chefs? Do you hire chefs who have some familiarity, I would imagine that would be hard.

[00:20:44] Farah Shammas: Yes, it's very hard.

[00:20:45] Mariann Sullivan: Do you just like, drum it into them what vegan means and do they get creative?

I imagine some of them it's a challenge and some of them it's annoying.

[00:20:54] Farah Shammas: Well, I, so, yeah, it's been quite a journey. I've been known to go into the kitchen and make things with them. So I suddenly leave my office. That's it. I'm coming down to make it and I'm like doing it there, which is quite amazing. And you know, we cook for a thousand people sometimes a day. So I'm not making all that food, but I've shared a lot of recipes with them. I've written three books. They've got them all. The nicest story I have is that our executive chef, who just retired a few months ago was, at the beginning, very skeptical. And then he was like, okay, he's always up for a challenge. He's like, let's try this.

We sent him to London and loads of different, you know, try different vegan options all over the place. Look up things. He bought loads of books, went online. He made the best vegan food in the end. He got so good at it. And, this is the best part, he actually became vegan. And then he said he has never had such good blood results tests in his life.

He changed his life around. He went from like stressed, high cholesterol, all of these problems to like flying and feeling younger and better than ever. That was like one of the most gratifying parts I've had. So, yeah, it's been good. I've had other struggles with other chefs, like, you know, but this is vegan or it's approximately just eat a bit of egg, you know, and I'm like, oh my goodness, it doesn't work like that.

But yeah, I think people have taken the challenge and we've got a new chef now who hasn't really had that much experience with it, but he's really, well, I think he knew anyway, he had to suck it up to get the job and he's been amazing though, he's been amazing. He has like taken the challenge and I cannot tell you, he has created some of the best dishes I've ever tried and it's only the beginning, so.

[00:22:43] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, no, training chefs, I think is one of the most important things that people who want to spread vegan food. I mean, we're not going to succeed with bad food.

[00:22:51] Farah Shammas: No, no, exactly. If you're given a bit of plain pasta and some fruits at the end, no one's gonna say this is for me.

[00:22:59] Mariann Sullivan: And believe me, I've had those meals in too many restaurants.

[00:23:02] Farah Shammas: Haven't we all?

[00:23:04] Mariann Sullivan: You are clearly a powerhouse kind of person. You seem to be high energy, high, high goals. So another thing you're doing is this thing called Farah's Club, which I found out online and I'm, I don't, I'm not entirely clear what it is, but it sounds very cool.

Can you tell us what it is?

[00:23:20] Farah Shammas: Thanks. Yes, I have to change the landing page to make it a little bit more obvious. I think because it's evolving, like everything I do, I'm not a procrastinator. So if I think of an idea, I'll, if I think of an idea, it might be two in the morning. I think when I started Farah's Club, I was still breastfeeding my youngest.

And it was literally two or three in the morning. I was like, yeah, great. And then I just said, Oh, there's dot clubs. Oh, Farah is available. I bought it the next day I launched it. And originally it started off as just a kind of extension of Cook Vegan, my Facebook group. And then I started using the term happiness because that's what my name means, Farah.

But really, simplistically put, it is a wellness, subscription club promoting health and happiness. So, I'm not a vegan club and I say that because, while I do want vegans in it, if you're vegan, we're already singing from the same hymn sheet. So, I want everybody to come in, you know, I want the heavy steak eaters, and I'm not there to judge them. And then, you know, when people are in the club and saying, Oh, I've been out of breath lately, or I can't sleep very well or whatever their health problems are, they'll get my Weekly newsletter, which has anything from how to get more steps into your day, to why and how we should get vitamin C, to what zinc is, you know, there's an array of newsletters that I write.

So they get that, and that's just once a week, so it doesn't take up a lot of their time, two minute read, and then that hopefully will sink in. They'll get a new recipe from me once a week into their inbox, it's going to be plant based, it's all things that they've got in their cupboard anyway, so they don't have to go googling what aquafaba is or whatever.

It's all simple things that they might just say, Oh, I could make those tacos or, Oh, I could do that easy breakfast and hopefully put in. And then we, in Cyprus, we have monthly meetings, but I have people joining from all over the world. We have monthly Zoom meetings with experts,

[00:25:23] Mariann Sullivan: So you have in person meetings and Zoom meetings.

Are they the same meetings or are those?

[00:25:27] Farah Shammas: Nope, they're different.

[00:25:28] Mariann Sullivan: So the in person meetings are just for the folks...

[00:25:31] Farah Shammas: in Cyprus for the moment. Yeah.

[00:25:34] Mariann Sullivan: And then you have Zoom meetings and you have guests?

[00:25:37] Farah Shammas: And I have guest speakers, who are from all over the world. We might be talking about omega 3s, we might be talking about diets and fad diets, we might be talking about acupuncture and, you know, whether that's good for you or not and what it can do, Chinese medicine.

I mean, we talk about a whole array of subjects on these zooms. Yesterday on IBS, I had one. And then they're recorded so people can go to the platform. And everything I send out is always on the platform. So people can try out for a month. It's 27 euros per month. And if it's not for them, there's no obligation, but they get access to everything I've ever written or posted, is on that platform as soon as they join.

[00:26:17] Mariann Sullivan: So I understand from what I saw, the, um, the local people from the local area coming in, you actually serve vegan food at these, so that makes it obvious how you're getting the word across, just the food itself is speaking for itself. But what about with the Zoom meetings?

Do you bring in veganism? How do you do it without everybody saying, Oh, this isn't for me?

[00:26:37] Farah Shammas: Yes. So, for the Zoom meetings, it's on various topics that may or may not be around eating plant based or eating healthier. It's to be holistically well, but regardless of what Zoom meeting topic it is that month, they're getting a recipe every week that is a plant based recipe in their inbox. And then they're getting a newsletter that is promoting eating or living in a kinder and a more plant-based way.

So everybody who's in the club has slowly been like, Oh, you know, I realized last week I didn't eat meat because of, you know, subtly, like it's going into their head, all of this information going out there. I also do promotions, companies will give me discounts, let's say for immaculate vegan clothes and they get a discount.

So they go on and they're like, Oh, I could buy my sandals this year from a non-leather company, or an ethical, yeah, vegan company. So by doing things like that, it's slowly sinking into people. Obviously, I can't cook their food for them. But the idea is that the group, I mean, we're already about 100 people, but that the group will grow internationally as well as much and hopefully have bases in various locations.

So that let's say hopefully if anybody listens to this and wants to be the director in somewhere in the States, please let me know because I'm looking for partners now. We're about to launch Lithuania, hopefully UK, Greece. So hopefully it will grow and we'll have different jurisdictions and then they'll have their physical meetings as well.

And then eventually I've got a good lineup of really famous people to do a summit, like a once a year event that everybody can come to, eat plant based food and also just learn about being kinder to yourself, because I think that's where veganism starts.

[00:28:33] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I think for a lot of people, it does. It really is all about kindness, isn't it?

[00:28:38] Farah Shammas: It's all about kindness.

[00:28:39] Mariann Sullivan: Kindness to yourself, kindness to animals, kindness to the planet.

[00:28:42] Farah Shammas: Kindness to other people. And that's what I can't stand about judgy vegans when they start competing with each other. Oh, but I do this more. I even had someone say, well, I check my tires that they're... okay, but let's not belittle the efforts of others.

Like everybody's doing their part and I think we just have to be kind.

[00:29:01] Mariann Sullivan: I think sometimes when people go vegan, their hearts break so much that they just seek that perfection because they can't bear to think that they're contributing at all. But it really ends up not being as great activism sometimes.

Sometimes the passion comes through and it works.

You know, there are vegans like that who are just so passionate that for some people it comes through, but for others it doesn't.

[00:29:23] Farah Shammas: I've actually got a talk on that that is entitled, um, no offense to anybody listening to this because we're all vegan, but why are vegans so annoying? And it's a comical talk.

[00:29:34] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. No, it's a question we have to confront.

Why do people hate us so much?

[00:29:38] Farah Shammas: Yeah, and that's always been my stance is to try and promote veganism, but without being irritating. And it's difficult, and I always say, and I tell my husband this, he's not vegan, he's very understanding though of it, he agrees with a lot of it, but he's just more flexitarian, and I tell him, you look, don't criticize vegans for being passionate.

They've seen things that you haven't. They've opened their eyes to things you haven't. And they can't believe that this stuff is still happening in the world. And that's why they seem quote unquote annoying. And we have to listen to such annoying crap that people say that is,

it's just, oh my. And you get sent all of these annoying things.

And because I've done plant based nutrition, I get sent all of this stuff about, you know, the carnivore diet or the,

[00:30:29] Mariann Sullivan: Well, yeah.

[00:30:30] Farah Shammas: it's just so tiring. It's not even worth my breath bothering, you know.

[00:30:33] Mariann Sullivan: Moving on to another, I mean, which is a very connected because all of your projects are connected, but I want to talk about your children's books. There were two, Theo the Pig and A Little Boy Called Noah.

[00:30:44] Farah Shammas: Yeah.

[00:30:44] Mariann Sullivan: And they're both adorable. I like that they're a combination storybook and cookbook.

I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. Where did that idea come from?

[00:30:53] Farah Shammas: I think I just had spare pages when I was because I wrote the first one, it was Theo the Pig and I wrote it literally in my head on a walk with my kids and was like, I've gotta get home and write this down. And I did, and just very quickly with a pencil. And then I was like, I've gotta get this book, published.

And it was just at the end of Covid when everyone was trying to publish a book. So all the publishing houses were inundated. They all wrote back to me, not all, but many, I was very flattered. Many agents and publishing houses at least responded to me saying, thank you so much, but we can't even consider any publication right now because we've got two years backlog.

Plus all the new stuff. And I did get two offers, which was amazing. So my background is marketing and I didn't feel, they weren't one of the top 10 and I didn't feel they were offering me anything. Maybe sounds arrogant, but I could do it myself. So, and then I decided, oh, let's have a fun project.

I'm going to illustrate it myself. And so I, put crappy paint to paper. Literally, I say that because my little one was so young I couldn't get out my oil paints. And so I, because I used to paint when I was much younger and I started just painting with these rubbish kids acrylics and these mottled brushes on any white piece of paper I could find that wasn't already scribbled on.

And I originally thought I would do less paintings, but I ended up saying no, each two lines needs a painting. So it got bigger and bigger, the book.

[00:32:27] Mariann Sullivan: I can't believe you'd never done an illustrations before. They're really good.

[00:32:31] Farah Shammas: Oh, thank you so much. You're so sweet. Yeah. This was definitely the first time I'd tried to draw a pig as well, paint a pig. So I did this whole book and then I was like, oh, but there's some pages at the back.

Why don't I put in a couple of recipes? And I thought, why would I do two? That's not worth someone's time. Let me put in at least 12. So that's what I did.

[00:32:51] Mariann Sullivan: They all sound great. I wish I was a cook. I'd make them all.

[00:32:55] Farah Shammas: Ah, well, they're all easy.

You can do it. I promise you. They're all easy recipes.

[00:33:01] Mariann Sullivan: All right, so there's another book too, A Little Boy Called Noah. I don't know which one, I guess that came second. Also a combination storybook and cookbook. And the story is based like in the leadership shown by a child regarding compassion for animals. And these books are not from your health veganism.

This is definitely the animals.

[00:33:21] Farah Shammas: This is a hundred percent for the animals. I did get some backlash. Not a lot, but a little bit for Theo the pig because I didn't criticize the farmers in it.

[00:33:31] Mariann Sullivan: Right, I noted that. I thought that was very careful messaging on your part that clearly you're someone who doesn't want to throw anybody under the bus. You didn't say what they were doing was okay, but, I mean, I hate when the industry tries to say that we hate farmers. Of course, we don't hate farmers. We eat just as much as anybody else.

[00:33:51] Farah Shammas: More! We eat more as vegans.

[00:33:53] Mariann Sullivan: We love farmers it's just what they do.

[00:33:56] Farah Shammas: Yeah, and I've sat next to, after I wrote this book, so just to sum up, so anybody who hasn't, do buy Theo the Pig, and you'll see what we're talking about, but this little pig, his life is in the hands of the reader, and that's why it's left at the end that people have the choice to buy animal products or not, and he, the pig, says the farmers are basically doing this for money, but if we ask them for other things, they'll be able to make other things and still feed their families, but not have to kill me.

That's basically the message said in a much prettier way. And after I wrote this book, I couldn't believe it, I went to this gala dinner for business in Cyprus, and I think it was an accident, but it might not have been, but I sat next to the second biggest pig farmer on the island.

Can you imagine?

[00:34:53] Mariann Sullivan: So you think somebody set you up?

[00:34:55] Farah Shammas: You know what, I do wonder sometimes, but then I'm like, I also believe in Cypress people can be that like out of it that they don't, but yeah, and, and yeah, it was crazy.

So I sat next to this guy who you would not believe this, it was the fasting period and I was like, Oh, I'm the vegan one when they were bringing the food and he's like, I'm fasting. So he was like not eating meat either that night. And then I was like, Oh, that's nice. I'm vegan da,da,da and then he went a bit quiet and then got a bit cagey and then I asked his name and then it transpired he was... and we actually had such an interesting conversation the whole night.

[00:35:34] Mariann Sullivan: yeah,

[00:35:35] Farah Shammas: I didn't, definitely didn't attack him. Although that would have been the easiest to be like, how could you and whatever. And I let him talk. I let him say his thing. And then I said, you know, and I, I asked him like, if you could make the same money using your land and not doing this, would you do it?

Would you consider that? And he was like, yeah.

And I was like, this is what my book's about, you know, and I sent him a copy of my book the next day. And he promised he'd give me a pig one day. I just need a big enough garden, but I really want a pig. That's my dream. And, um, he admitted that he knows.

That was the saddest thing for me.

[00:36:14] Mariann Sullivan: I always say that the only two groups of people in the world who actually know what's going on are the people who are doing it, the industry and us. Everybody else remains just completely brain dead and turns their head away, but they know, you know. the industry knows.

[00:36:29] Farah Shammas: He knows.

[00:36:30] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. it's really a tragedy.

It is interesting when they turn out to be companionable nice people and, you know, you demonize them so much in your head, but people are bizarre.

They can be doing just dreadful things and they can just be nice people. It doesn't make any sense.

[00:36:47] Farah Shammas: And sleep at night, yeah. It's bizarre.

[00:36:49] Mariann Sullivan: The question I was going to ask you about the Noah book, I thought it was very interesting that you put the leadership role in the hands of a child.

Is that something you have found to be an important theme in your life? I know you have three children, and you seem like a very devoted mother. Like, do you really think that it's the children who, who can lead us on this issue?

[00:37:11] Farah Shammas: I think, If it's explained to children, no child will eat an animal. You know, I mean, there's the age old, if you put a chick and an apple in with a two year old in a crib and come back after half an hour, the kid's going to have eaten the apple and be playing with the chick, not the other way around. I think nearly everyone has a story of suddenly realizing as a child that they were eating, you know, a pig when they're watching Peppa Pig or whatever they might be watching, or Big Bird, and connecting the two, and then they are then conditioned to, after that realization, they're conditioned by their parents and their carers and society to be told, well that's okay, this is what we're supposed to do, this is what you need to survive.

And I think if we weren't there to condition them, they naturally would be vegan or predominantly plant based and vegan. And I've seen it so much, in my time as a vegan, promoting vegan food and how easy it is to eat vegan food and cook it, that so many people have come up to me or messaged me, over social media and said, you know what, my kid wants to be vegan and I never let them, but now I've realized that I can at least cook for them in a way that they can eat well and I can sleep at night knowing that they have got all their nutrients.

And I think if we let our children lead us, they would lead us into such a better world. And my heart breaks for that.

[00:38:50] Mariann Sullivan: I mean, not to sound aggressive, but it really is child abuse to take the best impulses that these children are born with and pervert them and tell them they're wrong and lie to them about what's really happening. It's really dreadful.

[00:39:06] Farah Shammas: I think it's awful and I've seen it a lot with my own children and it's put me in a really difficult position many times, and yeah, it's just quite sad. I've seen people lie to them about what they give them, and my kids are not fully vegan. I'll say that now. I'd love them to be.

[00:39:23] Mariann Sullivan: Well, kids make their own decisions.

[00:39:25] Farah Shammas: I'm not married to a vegan. Yeah.

[00:39:26] Mariann Sullivan: And we started out by saying that this dawned on you in the middle of a complex life.

[00:39:31] Farah Shammas: Yes.

[00:39:32] Mariann Sullivan: And you had to make those adjustments.

[00:39:34] Farah Shammas: Yes. And also, my kids, I believe, you know, that they're just amazing people. My younger two are pescatarian. That was a compromise I reached with my husband, but they've both said, I don't want to eat fish.

[00:39:47] Mariann Sullivan: Hmm.

[00:39:48] Farah Shammas: You know, and then I'm there in this predicament, just kind of like... I'm there.

I've got to, yeah, protect our family as well, but I know many people will have different views on this, and probably commenting after this podcast, but I hope many will understand where I'm coming from there. And, my eldest, she is a massive fruit and salad girl, actually. I have to force her to eat like more complex carbs. And, she loves her plants, but she does have a bit of everything. And part of that was she didn't want to stand out. She didn't want to feel bullied. She didn't want to, and you know, she had so much pressure from other family members and people. And I've seen them lie.

I've seen people say, eat your chicken when actually it's turkey. So they don't have to explain that it's another bird. I've seen them say, Oh, no, no, that's something. And to the point that my son, or that's falafel, when actually it's, you know, a kebab, and my son, he's eight now and he's a very strong character, but he literally would not eat when he was out at one point without me, because he didn't trust people for what they were giving him, which is tragic.

And I was so proud of him. I never said you can't eat that because I also don't want to give my kids eating disorders or, you know, it's a fine balance with food.

[00:41:04] Mariann Sullivan: You have to be careful.

And, and like I said, kids make their own decisions too. It's not, you don't control them.

[00:41:09] Farah Shammas: They make their own decisions and we have to respect that. If, on one meal they say I don't want to eat fish, I don't want to eat whatever it is.

I don't want to eat. You can't sit them down to watch Peppa Pig and identify with this Peppa Pig family and then say, oh, when are you coming to eat your pork mince? Where's the empathy in that? Where's the understanding? And kids are kind, they're amazing. So that was what really Noah was about, that if we let the children show us the way, they are going to show us a better way.

If we listen, and most people do not listen to children, and children are wise, they are, They are so wise, we can learn so much from them. And the book also does touch on bullying, which I think is seen a lot everywhere, but especially in vegan worlds and for vegan children, unfortunately.

So Okay. In this book, his name was Noah and he identified with Noah, but you can identify with anyone you want and just be proud of you, be proud of your name. Be proud of who you are, who you are becoming, and know that you're doing your best and move forward with that. So that's the message.

[00:42:14] Mariann Sullivan: I thought it was a great message. Well, this has been really a joy, Farah. I've loved talking to you. Before we go to our bonus segment, which is just for our donors, I know you have a lot going on, so why don't you just take a moment to tell people about mostly, I guess about Farah's Club, but all about other things you have going on as well.

And also, just in case there's anybody out there about, how to book a room at that hotel.

[00:42:38] Farah Shammas: Amazing. Oh my goodness. Well, guys, I'd love to see you. And I tell you what, we haven't discussed this before, but exclusively for the listeners here today, if you guys get in touch with me over social media or email or any way and say that you heard this podcast with Mariann, I will give you an extra special price if you come and stay here.

So, you are more than welcome to come to St. Raphael Resort & Marina in Limassol, Cyprus and enjoy all our delicious vegan food and Seashell's vegan restaurant. And if you would like to keep in touch, you can follow me on any of the platforms, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, but I'd love for you to join the club.

It is Farahs, F A R A H S dot club and it's only 27 euros a month and you really get a lot for that because you really feel empowered to live a healthier life. So I know a lot of you are vegans already, which is amazing, huge congrats, but we're not all necessarily healthy vegans and we can all fall off the wagon once in a while.

So, it's just there really to give people ideas of what to cook. On average, most of us only cook nine dishes. In our lives, we just get stuck to like nine things that we have on repeat. So, it's nice to have reminders and have a whole access of things, recipe ideas there. And just to have lots of different emails and ideas and Zooms and so much more to basically see like, yeah, I can do that.

I can sleep better. I can exercise more. I can live a kinder, better life for myself, the best version of myself. So that's the club. And, the rest you can, yeah, check out on my social media. I have a podcast of my own called Hotel Talk. It's not, to do with veganism. It's just interesting people all connected by hotels.

So, it's a nice podcast. You're welcome to check that out. And, I'm also a plant based nutrition coach. So if any of you are feeling that you need a bit of support, or if you know someone who would like to go vegan or more plant based and live a healthier life, then I'm there. It's also, the link is on Farahs.Club and you can book some sessions with me and I will do that over Zoom and help you through any transition or questions or difficult periods you've got in your life to basically be the best version of yourself. That's what I'm here for.

[00:45:05] Mariann Sullivan: Amazing. You are an energetic person, Farah, and you're doing a lot and thanks so much for joining us today on Our Hen House. It's really

been fun to talk to you.

[00:45:14] Farah Shammas: It's been amazing. So thank you so much. And I wish all the listeners all the very best, always. Health, love, happiness, peace, and kindness.