Going to Prison for Rescuing Hens?!? Animal Activism on Trial with Zoe Rosenberg

[00:00:03] Mariann Sullivan: I should say welcome back 'cause you've been on before, but I think it was just with Jasmin, so I've never met you before. That was actually on episode 665, which was not that long ago. You were here with your mother. I think

[00:00:13] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah.

[00:00:14] Mariann Sullivan: the great veterinarian, Shirsten Rosenberg. So if people want even more background, they should go to that episode 'cause today we're really gonna talk about what's going on right now. 'cause a lot's going on, a lot's happened since then. And I imagine some of our listeners are pretty familiar with DXE's campaigns and some aren't, including that against Petaluma Poultry.

So can we just start out with like a little background with a description of what and where Petaluma Poultry is?

[00:00:40] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. Petaluma Poultry is a subsidiary of Purdue, which is the fourth largest poultry producer in the United States. And Petaluma Poultry is based in Sonoma County, California, though they have some facilities in the Central Valley of California as well.

[00:00:56] Mariann Sullivan: So they have more than one facility. It's a kind of overall name for a bunch of different places.

[00:01:02] Zoe Rosenberg: Yes. They operate a slaughterhouse, in the city of Petaluma, and then they have factory farms across Sonoma County and the Central Valley that supply chickens to that slaughterhouse.

[00:01:13] Mariann Sullivan: So are those suppliers, are they like independent producers who contract with Petaluma, or are they actually owned by Petaluma and then byPurdue.

[00:01:22] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. My understanding is that Purdue and Petaluma Poultry owns the birds and the farms are contract farmers who, work underneath the company.

[00:01:33] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I think that's pretty typical. So tell us a little bit about Sonoma County. I mean, even though there are a lot of factory farms there, according to my understanding, it's not really what you picture as your typical rural factory farming county, is it?

[00:01:45] Zoe Rosenberg: It's not,, it's actually, you know, it's a progressive county majority. Democrats and it's just, you know, a 45 minute drive from San Francisco. So, driving through Sonoma County, depending what part of the county you're driving through, you wouldn't even necessarily realize that there are so many factory farms in the county. It's, you know, more known for vineyards and wine and that type of thing. But if you start to drive through like rural Petaluma, you know, you'll see huge sheds full of hundreds of thousands of birds.

[00:02:16] Mariann Sullivan: Right. Oh, driving by. You might not even know they were full of birds. Uh,

[00:02:21] Zoe Rosenberg: absolutely.

[00:02:21] Mariann Sullivan: they'd have to keep it a secret. I would imagine like a lot of residents Sonoma County, you know, it's kind of a high-end kind of place. And really they would prefer not to think about their county being the home to factory farming, but there are many, many places abusing animals in the world and, many, many targets. Obviously you're in California, so one reason to pick Petaluma is 'cause it's in California, but what other reason? Were there any particular reasons you focused on Petaluma?

[00:02:49] Zoe Rosenberg: I mean, I think like Petaluma Poultry specifically has a pretty disturbing track record of animal cruelty and also of really manipulative marketing, primarily they sell under the brand names Rocky, the Free Range Chicken and Rosie, the Organic Chicken.. The marketing for these brands is just beyond manipulative and disturbing. The logos are these cartoon chickens all dressed up in, you know, a sun hat and sunglasses and they have these advertisements of chickens outside in grassy fields. And consumers of Rocky and Rosie genuinely believe that the chickens are living these happy, wonderful lives. And in Sonoma County, people like actually really kind of value these cartoons. They're kind of icons in Sonoma County and in the Bay Area. And it just felt really important to kind of call them out for this really manipulative marketing and let people know that these chickens actually never even get to go outside. They never get to feel grass beneath their feet. And this is all just trying to prey on people who care about animals to use their compassion for animals to make money.

[00:04:07] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it sounds like the marketing is very, like what people expect Sonoma County to be and Yeah, the reality is just like every other chicken factory farm.

[00:04:15] Zoe Rosenberg: Absolutely. Yeah. And when we're talking about these companies in Sonoma County, sometimes, you know, people say to us, why don't you go to the Central Valley? Why don't you go there and look at those factory farms? And it's like, well, at least people in the Central Valley generally realize that the factory farms are bad. In Sonoma County, you know, the marketing, they've done such a good job with it that people genuinely don't realize that it's literally the same factory farm conditions as the Central Valley.

[00:04:41] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I teach this animal law course in it we were talking about consumer protection law the other day, and we're just talking about you know, the deceptive advertising, the exact sort of thing, and it's really a heightened problem with animal farming because it's easy to fool people because they want to believe so much.

Like anything you tell them, they'll latch onto that so that they can continue doing what they do and feeling okay about it. So it's even a heightened problem from other consumer protection problems where people are being deceived about the products they're buying because there's such a desire on so many people's parts to buy the hype.

[00:05:19] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean it's, it's all because people do, people genuinely care a lot about animals. People love animals. And I think that's what they're manipulating in people is that compassion.

[00:05:29] Mariann Sullivan: totally. I know that there's been a Petaluma campaign that's been going on for a while. When did you first become involved? Was it at the beginning?

[00:05:36] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. So, the campaign against, or our history in Direct Action Everywhere with Petaluma Poultry specifically, really began in 2018. Well, 2017 was when the investigatory side of things began and. there was an investigation of McCoy's Poultry Services, which was a Petaluma Poultry supplying factory farm in Petaluma. And this investigation just found horrific conditions, you know, chickens collapsed, unable to get to food and water, rampant disease. And after all of these findings were reported to Sonoma County law enforcement, no action was taken. And a group of animal rescuers with DXE went to McCoy's Poultry Services and began to rescue the animals. people were calling the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department asking them to come and help the animals and to do something. This actually ended up, you know, turning into a kind of devastating rescue where Sonoma County Sheriff's Department did and eventually arrive on site, but they stopped people from leaving with those chickens who they were trying to rescue. And you know, every animal rescuer on site that day was arrested and all of the chickens except for one, were taken by law enforcement and killed. Thankfully one chicken, one officer did allow one of the chickens to go and she ultimately actually came to Happy Hen Animal Sanctuary where she lived with me, and that was Rose. So, you know, Rose and that event at Petaluma Poultry’s McCoy's Poultry Services facility really was my first introduction to this company, on a real level. And also, you know, a moment where I really lost all of my faith in law enforcement to protect animals.

[00:07:24] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, and forgive me because I don't remember exactly, but did I read something in the report of that that like some of the people who were care, not, not just the people involved with DXE, but some other people who witnessed this or Were at the Sheriff's I…somewhere,

there was some sympathetic reaction from some people and it just got shut down. Was that true or did I make that up in my head?

[00:07:45] Zoe Rosenberg: maybe what you're thinking of is, um, so. All of the dead birds that activists had removed from the facility and all of the live birds people had removed from the facility were sent to Sonoma County Animal Services.

[00:07:59] Mariann Sullivan: That was it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:00] Zoe Rosenberg: And there they were killed. And animal services, you know, in my opinion, handled it very poorly. But one good thing the animal services did do is that they referred McCoy's Poultry services after seeing the conditions of these birds and doing necropsies on these birds, which found just, horrible disease and. really, gave some background into how these birds died. they referred McCoy's Poultry services to the Sonoma County Sheriff's office as a suspect for criminal animal cruelty. But sadly, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office never followed up on this referral. They never did anything. And so nothing, you know, nothing was ever, ever done to address it.

[00:08:38] Mariann Sullivan: So over the years, what kind of other information did you supply to authorities about animal cruelty? Until the incident that we're gonna be talking about primarily today, were there other issues?

[00:08:48] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people have just repeatedly reported the company and have reported it as new findings have come about and, you know, that's included.

People just, At the slaughterhouse holding vigils, documenting chickens in poor condition on the back of the transport trucks and reporting that to authorities. And you know, over the years between 2018 and 2023, investigating some of their other factory farms. And then in spring of 2023, prior to the rescue that I'm currently being prosecuted for, there was a company-wide investigation of Petaluma Poultry that I participated in where A number of their factory farms were investigated. And again, you know, just similar conditions were found to what was found in McCoy's Poultry Services back in 2017 and 2018. And, at one of the factory farms I investigated in Santa Rosa, the farm's own records actually showed that more than 10% of the baby birds had died by the time they'd reached just five weeks of age. Which is, Really a reflection of how rampant the disease and abuse and neglect was at this facility. And, on the slaughterhouse side for the first time, people were able to investigate the slaughterhouse and evidence was found, just showing that birds were arriving with abnormally high rates of infection and disease. And probably the worst thing that was found was evidence of birds being boiled alive.

[00:10:17] Mariann Sullivan: And when you say that you investigated, like, can you paint a picture for us? Like what was that like? and who was doing it? and what did you do with the information? How did you gather that information? What did you do with it?

[00:10:27] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, so generally, you know, what we do is we gather a team of investigators and we enter these facilities typically, you know, we enter a factory farm, for example, in the middle of the night. And, we prepare Camera equipment And we also come prepared just in case there are any animals who we find in distress if we have the opportunity to rescue them.

That's something that we're sometimes able to do. really our primary goal though is, is documentation and, We obviously take biosecurity very seriously in these instances, and that's a huge part of the preparation process is just making sure, I mean, honestly, the biggest risk is probably bringing diseases out of these facilities, but of course we

[00:11:10] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:11:10] Zoe Rosenberg: also don't wanna bring anything in, so we take a lot of precautions at at every step of the process yeah. So, and while we were investigating the facility in Santa Rosa specifically that factory farm, we actually did come across two chickens who were in critical condition, who we had the capacity to rescue. their names are Vincent and Petunia, and we were able to rescue them, which was, wonderful.

And they're both still alive today.

[00:11:34] Mariann Sullivan: that's excellent. Yeah. And, so these were open rescue, even though they were in the middle of the night, they were open rescues in the sense that you then reported the information. Right?

[00:11:44] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, all of the, all the animal cruelty documentation was reported to law enforcement.

And then the rescues of Vincent and Petunia were, we documented them and I. You know, I was on camera, I wasn't hiding my face or my identity, and we publicized their stories online, when we released the investigation publicly. So the entire world was able to hear their stories and get to learn exactly what happened to them at Petaluma Poultry.

[00:12:13] Mariann Sullivan: And the reason I imagine that some of our listeners are very familiar with all of this, some of it maybe not at all, but probably a lot of people are somewhat familiar with it because of Wayne Hsiung's arrest and conviction. And that proceeded the incident involving you that we're going to be talking about, but can you just kind of tell us that story?

Because that was a very different kind of event, right? It wasn't going in the middle of the night and, uh.

[00:12:37] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. Yeah. So Wayne was prosecuted for two different broad daylight open rescues that had taken place in 2018 and 2019. So one was, a large rescue that took place at a facility called Sunrise Farms in 2018, which is a massive factory farm in Petaluma that houses hundreds of thousands of egg laying hens in cages. And, there was a group of a few hundred Activists who went to Sunrise and a smaller group of activists entered the barns, and we rescued chickens from those cages. And we, I believe that day we rescued 37 hens from the facility. And Wayne was kind of singled out as a leader of that action. And so that's why he was prosecuted While other people weren't. And then similarly in, uh, 2019, there was a rescue at Reichardt Duck Farm, which is one of the largest duck farms in California. With about 200,000 ducks at any given time. And that day we were able to rescue 32 ducklings. And I mean, at that event specifically, Wayne didn't even go on the property.

Wayne was just on public property, you know, speaking to people. But he still managed to get, you know, singled out as a leader just because of his role in Direct Action Everywhere. And so he was also prosecuted for that. Though, on that one, he ended up being convicted on one of the charges for the Reichardt action.

And he was acquitted or, so he wasn't acquitted. the jury was hung on the other.

[00:14:10] Mariann Sullivan: So was this the first time that that law enforcement had decided to, counter whatever DXE was doing, or other activists were doing with arrests and prosecutions?

[00:14:20] Zoe Rosenberg: do you mean like in Wayne's case?

[00:14:22] Mariann Sullivan: in Wayne's case, Yeah. like, up until then, it seemed like a lot had gone on, but nobody gotten arrested. And then it seems like maybe the strategy on their part changed.

[00:14:31] Zoe Rosenberg: yeah, I mean, in Sonoma County specifically, people had done investigations and rescues there in the past and never been prosecuted for them and yeah. the Sunrise Farms, that action, that was the first time people were arrested for Any rescue or investigation in Sonoma County, but even at Sunrise, you know, the police were reluctant to arrest people. like we walked right past the police with the chickens and they didn't even try to stop us.

which is partly why I think people felt, you know, Not too worried that the, the police were going to try to actually take animals and harm animals at McCoy's Poultry services because just months prior, the police had seemed totally fine with the rescues at Sunrise. and ultimately the only reason why the sheriff's department did make arrests at sunrise was because people decided to try to reenter the property after the sheriff's department had kind of secured the perimeter of the property and it was kind of more of a symbolic action of civil disobedience that people were arrested for versus the actual rescue of the animals. I think, you know, at some point between the rescue at Sunrise and the rescue at McCoy's Poultry Services, The Sheriff's Department received pressure from the industry and likely, honestly from the Sonoma Couty

[00:15:44] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:44] Zoe Rosenberg: Farm Bureau, which we have seen email records of, you know, the Sonoma County Farm Bureau is very involved in pushing for these prosecutions.

[00:15:51] Mariann Sullivan: so all right, we’ve finally gotten to the story that we're here to talk about. That's kind of all the background. Can you tell us about the rescue and the ensuing arrest that you were involved in?

[00:15:59] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, so in June of 2023, after the investigation that I had participated in, of Petaluma Poultry, and after of course seeing law enforcement's failure to act, I ended up entering Purdue's Petaluma Poultry Slaughterhouse on June 13th, 2023. I was partially disguised as a worker, though, you know, not with the intention of hiding my identity or anything like that. I was very transparent about who I was and, and wasn't hiding my face. I entered the slaughterhouse, right after a transport truck had just parked behind the slaughterhouse’s fence. it's a fenced in slaughterhouse. they have, you know, 24 7 security,

[00:16:40] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:16:42] Zoe Rosenberg: but it is in the middle of Petaluma. It's in the middle of the city. It's in between a, a Starbucks and a subway. You know, it's.

[00:16:49] Mariann Sullivan: Wow.

[00:16:50] Zoe Rosenberg: just right in the city, there are apartments right next to it. People live around it and are just constantly exposed to the smell of the slaughterhouse. yeah, so I, I went in and, I approached the back of the transport truck. there were basically, it's like a, a long truck bed. I'm sure a lot of people have seen, you know, from vigils and various things, what these trucks look like. But it's a long truck bed stacked with hundreds of these orange plastic crates. and in these crates, just dozens of birds are just packed in Like cargo and can barely stand, can barely turn around. They're just, really packed in there. And I opened up one crate and, you know, when we do open rescues, we generally try to rescue animals who particularly need help. Obviously, you know, disease and abuse is just so rampant at any factory farm type of facility that often safe to assume that nearly a hundred percent of the animals. Need some amount of medical attention, but we try to rescue the animals who particularly are in need of medical attention.

So, you know, I identified birds who seemed small and pale and, weak, and, removed them from the crate. So I removed two chickens and then rescued another two chickens from another cage and Left the facility. and I, you know, I was not in the slaughterhouse very long. It was you know, really all, all very brief and they didn't even know that I was there. The only reason that they knew that this rescue occurred is because we publicized it. And, I shared the stories of the four chickens who I've named Poppy, Ivy, Astrid, and Azalea. And called on the public to join me in asking law enforcement to finally address this animal cruelty. you know, we of course, you know, got them the care they needed. they were covered in scratches and bruises and infested with coccydia parasites. Poppy had an injured toe and a respiratory infection.

Astrid had an infected foot. So of course, you know, we addressed those things and months went by and really nothing happened. I wasn't arrested and Petaluma Poultry wasn't investigated by law enforcement, unsurprisingly. So it wasn't actually until after Wayne's conviction and, it was After his sentencing hearing that I was ultimately arrested and I was arrested while reporting criminal animal cruelty at Sonoma County facilities to the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office when they arrested me on two different warrants. I was arrested on, on seven felonies and six misdemeanors.

[00:19:20] Mariann Sullivan: So, can you back up a second? You were arrested when you were reporting. What, what does that mean? Like what exactly were you doing when you were arrested?

[00:19:28] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, so Wayne had just had a sentencing hearing and there were about 200 supporters at the courthouse who had come for Wayne's sentencing hearing. And, we had a little press conference and then I ended the press conference and led the group of people from the courthouse to the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office, which is just, you know, it's like a five minute walk from the courthouse. And I had a folder full of evidence of criminal animal cruelty at Reichardt duck Farms, sunrise Farms, and Perdue’s Petaluma poultry facilities. And we were just essentially going to ask the Sheriff's office to address this cruelty and just thought, you know, it was an opportunity with all those people there to show that the public really wants them to take this seriously. As I was approaching, we were, you know, we were right about to enter the parking lot of the sheriff's office, and an officer started to walk towards me and, and he shouted, “Miss Rosenberg.” And I thought, you know, at the time I just kind of thought maybe, you know, he didn't want us to come into the, the office or something. and he wanted to have a conversation about the report. Outside or, or whatever, which would've been fine, but that was not what was happening. He informed me he had a warrant for my arrest and, I was never even able to, to make that report that day because I was arrested before I was able to do so,

[00:20:47] Mariann Sullivan: So the timing, which I wasn't aware how far apart they were, but the incident which got you arrested, which they immediately knew about or very soon after knew about, they didn't do anything about until you tried to report a separate crime.

[00:21:01] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, and I do think, like part of it too, I suspect they were waiting to decide whether or not they wanted to prosecute me based on how Wayne's trial went. And I think after Wayne was convicted, they felt confident that they could, you know, take another case to trial and get another conviction and probably felt motivated to do so after seeing that Wayne's conviction had not stopped people. People were still rescuing animals and doing investigations in Sonoma County despite Wayne's conviction. so, you know, I think, all those factors probably contributed to them ultimately deciding to move forward with, with pressing charges.

[00:21:40] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, but it does kind of seem like if somebody commits a crime and they think it's serious, they should just arrest them. Not wait.

[00:21:47] Zoe Rosenberg: absolutely. If, yeah, no, of course. And if they thought, you know, if they thought I was a threat to the public or some dangerous criminal, they would've arrested me in June. Not waited.

[00:21:59] Mariann Sullivan: Or a danger to chickens, like other chickens, you could have done more in the interim like.

[00:22:03] Zoe Rosenberg: Absolutely. So, I think, speaks volumes that they waited several months to arrest me. you know, they've tried to argue that they think I'm dangerous. You know, at my, um, release, hearing my bail hearing, I was put on an ankle monitor and pretrial release conditions. they said, I'm a, threat to the public.

[00:22:20] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. What, what, I was gonna get to that, but, but tell me,what those pre-release conditions are in addition tothe ankle monitor.

[00:22:27] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. So, in addition to wearing an ankle monitor, I am subject to warrantless searches and seizures of my person property and residence. I cannot leave the county that I reside in without calling my pretrial officer, and I can't leave the state of California without having like A hearing where a judge grants me permission. I can't go within a hundred yards of any Petaluma Poultry, Reichardt Duck Farm, or Sunrise Farms facilities. I can't step foot onto any property where animals are being raised for meat, dairy, or eggs. I have to meet, once a month in person, with my pretrial officer and I have to do a monthly check-in call with pretrial, the most bizarre condition is that I've been prohibited from possessing chickens, ducks, and other fowl because they're just, just that worried I might rescue more birds.

[00:23:17] Mariann Sullivan: Well, but what about your sanctuary?

[00:23:19] Zoe Rosenberg: They did make an exception for the sanctuary. So, you know, those animals are fine, but if I'm walking down the street and I see an abandoned duck or something, if I pick that duck up, I could be arrested and held in custody for violating my pretrial release conditions.

[00:23:34] Mariann Sullivan: Now I remember, I guess it was part of his parole conditions. But with Wayne, he was also prohibited from being close to his friends, and the other people who might work, in animal rights or, uh, I forget exactly what the wording was. At this point, there's nothing like that for you?

[00:23:51] Zoe Rosenberg: No. Um, I don't have a stay away order from any individual people, or anything like that, so good on that front.

[00:23:58] Mariann Sullivan: So, I think you told me the sentence but can you go over that again? What are the charges and the sentences that you're facing?

[00:24:05] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. So I was initially arrested on seven felonies and six misdemeanors, though a judge after my preliminary hearing ruled that I'd been overcharged and they reduced my felony counts. So I'm going into trial facing one felony and four misdemeanors. it's felony conspiracy. And you know, it's similar to Wayne.

Wayne was also charged with felony conspiracy, and it's basically just their way of charging me with felonies for misdemeanor level crime. and the misdemeanors are theft, two counts of trespass and then tampering with a vehicle or its contents because it was a, transport truck.

[00:24:47] Mariann Sullivan: Share your thoughts a little bit about what's really going on here with this and the other prosecutions. I mean, obviously these aren't the crime of the century, and they don't even know that these crimes are committed until you tell them, “oh, oh, I did this,” so, why are they bringing the full weight of the law against you and other activists when in the past, you know, they haven't necessarily gone to those lengths.

[00:25:09] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, I think there are a few reasons. one is just that they're increasingly realizing the power of open rescue and how threatening it is to have these animal's stories told. I think animal rescue has a really particularly powerful way of highlighting the horrors of animal agriculture and other industries that exploit animals. When we zoom in and we focus on one individual animal's story, I think people really connect with that.

[00:25:43] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:25:43] Zoe Rosenberg: they relate to that animal and they root for that animal.

And even just subconsciously, they start to view the company or the industry as a villain in that animal's story. And I think they're very threatened by that. I think Most of all, you know, this is really a prosecution to try to deter people from continuing to rescue animals. It's to set an example, and I think that's why, you know, they're prosecuting me and not every single person who has participated in these rescues.

[00:26:13] Mariann Sullivan: And why they prosecuted Wayne and not the

[00:26:14] Zoe Rosenberg: Right,

[00:26:15] Mariann Sullivan: many, many other people who were there.

[00:26:17] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. I think they're hoping if they just harshly prosecute one person. it can set an example and deter people without using as many resources. And I think part of why they're prosecuting me specifically is, I think they, likely feel like, well one, just that I'm a leader in the organization, but also, you know, that I continued to rescue animals while Wayne was on trial and after Wayne was convicted, continued this work.

They feel like, kind of maybe disrespected the system to some extent or something along those lines, but yeah, I mean, ultimately I think these prosecutions are absolutely, just regardless of all of the internal motives are totally political. And this is not, it's not about the value of these birds, it's not about theft, you know, even if these animals are healthy, which of course they're not, but even if they're healthy. They're only worth a few dollars. And I mean, in my criminal complaint, they're only estimating that each of the four chickens I rescued is worth $6.

[00:27:14] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, and that's probably an exaggeration.

[00:27:16] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah totally an exaggeration. But I mean, even with their calculations, that's less than $25 that I allegedly stole or took. And if you think about it, if I had stolen four dead chickens from a grocery store. I would not be wearing an ankle monitor for the past year and half.

I would not be going on trial facing a felony.

[00:27:36] Mariann Sullivan: It's not that. Yeah. Well obviously they're, I mean, we have this section of the podcast called Rising Anxieties where we try to reframe like horrible things the industry is doing as evidence that they're very nervous because we know what's happening and they know what's happening and nobody else really knows what's happening. and they know that they're vulnerable if people wake up, so they don't want people to wake up.

It's just same thing we were talking about before. So I don't know whether you can tell us anything, but, can you tell us anything about where the chickens are now, Azalea and the others?

[00:28:08] Zoe Rosenberg: I can't give any details about, you know, their location or anything, but, they all are doing well

[00:28:13] Mariann Sullivan: good.

[00:28:13] Zoe Rosenberg: and were able to recover from everything.

[00:28:16] Mariann Sullivan: Azalea is a particularly excellent name.

[00:28:18] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah.

[00:28:19] Mariann Sullivan: I know next steps for you depend on a lot, you know, you're not really in control of your destiny fully at this moment,

[00:28:26] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah.

[00:28:27] Mariann Sullivan: but what about next steps for the movement that you helped to start here and in addition to your trial, which I assume will be an important event and we wanna talk about that, are there other plans that you can share about what next steps are in this ever-changing world?

And, do you plan on going in a different direction?

[00:28:43] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, I mean, I personally, you know, really think that animal rescue should continue to be really central in the animal rights movement. I mean, I think it has to be, it's one of the very few ways that we can really center the most impacted individuals in our movement. you know, obviously, um, we're an unusual movement in that it's humans fighting for those who are most impacted. And, you know, the animals can't be out there giving speeches and leading protests. So we're, you know, left, often speaking for them and on their behalf. And, obviously we're still doing that To some extent with animal rescue, but it does at least allow us to center someone who is directly impacted, I think, in a different way. And share their story. And, I think that's really important and we have to keep doing that if we wanna change the way that people view animals and in particular animals who are used in these industries. But, you know, just generally, I think, it's really important that in these moments where people in the movement are, are facing some sort of legal repression or, or any form of repression that we just kind of come together and show, in whatever capacity that might be, that we're not going to be deterred by this, and that we're actually going to come back stronger from it, whether that be through, you know, protests or marches or people coming out to trial and supporting there.

[00:30:05] Mariann Sullivan: I mean, I think you're an unusually courageous person, and I'm sure many listening are kind of in awe of your willingness to take these risks. And I'm also sure that even though I think you are an unusually courageous person working with others, you know, everybody knows you, do you either More courageous, sometimes stupider things when there are other people around you.

And so the power of a group is very important. But, where are you emotionally right now? to the extent that you wanna share that.

[00:30:32] Zoe Rosenberg: I mean, I think for me, the hardest part of all of this has honestly been the uncertainty of it. There's just been like, so, so much in the air and for the majority of the past year and a half, just, we haven't even had trial dates. So not even knowing when things are gonna happen and how long I'm gonna be on an ankle monitor since it is, you know, a pretrial condition. So that uncertainty is just kind of stressful and it does make it hard to mentally prepare for an outcome. And I mean, even now, you know, obviously we have trial dates, but we don't know what the outcome of the trial will be. And even if it's a bad outcome, if I just knew what it was, I feel like I could mentally prepare for it

[00:31:07] Mariann Sullivan: Right.

[00:31:07] Zoe Rosenberg: And figure it out, but not knowing and having to mentally prepare for so many different outcomes. Just, yeah, sometimes I feel a little bit scattered, these days, but, you know, overall I'm doing okay. I mean, I think, my biggest fear about potentially serving some sort of jail or prison sentence is just my medical situation. I have an insulin pump and a continuous glucose monitor, and when I was arrested back in 2023, I was informed that I would not be allowed to keep those devices in

[00:31:37] Mariann Sullivan: My God.

[00:31:38] Zoe Rosenberg: the jail.

[00:31:39] Mariann Sullivan: Like what kind? Like what? They, they don't arrest people who have like medical conditions ever.

[00:31:45] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah. And I,

[00:31:46] Mariann Sullivan: mean, it's not, I mean, that's a really big problem and I feel for you, but.

[00:31:50] Zoe Rosenberg: yeah, no, it's, it's not that unusual

[00:31:53] Mariann Sullivan: holy moly. They need to be prepared for these situations

[00:31:57] Zoe Rosenberg: I don't know what the problem is with, with having those devices.

I guess maybe they, they worry that people are going to, to use them irresponsibly or

[00:32:04] Mariann Sullivan: to stay alive?

[00:32:05] Zoe Rosenberg: Yeah, just, I, I, I don't know. It's just, so bizarre and, and obviously, you know, a lot of people with my condition do die in custody every year in jails and prisons.

[00:32:15] Mariann Sullivan: Wow.

[00:32:16] Zoe Rosenberg: that's, you know, definitely something that's on my mind a lot

[00:32:19] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:32:20] Zoe Rosenberg: Obvi, of course, if I am in custody, you know, we will, we'll do our best to try to fight For me to be allowed to keep those devices. But, that’s definitely…

[00:32:26] Mariann Sullivan: Were you, you know, I'm gonna take a step back 'cause I'm not sure I figured this out. Were you put in custody when you were arrested or were you given like a desk appearance Ticket and expected to show up later?

[00:32:38] Zoe Rosenberg: So when I was arrested, I was taken into custody. I was in jail for about eight hours and I ended up bailing out because of the medical situation. I basically, usually I, I would've. Just stayed in custody until the hearing where I would have, you know, likely been released without having to post bail.

But, basically, they were about to book me or send me to housing and they were saying they were going to take my medical devices and I asked the nurse, you know, what's going to happen? And, he said, if you don't bail out, it's going to be really, really bad for you. is basically what he told me.

[00:33:13] Mariann Sullivan: Oh my God. all right, so you mentioned, I mean, the trial's coming up pretty soon.

[00:33:18] Zoe Rosenberg: yeah.

[00:33:18] Mariann Sullivan: can you tell us when it is, where it is and how people can support you, either people who are able to be there or people who aren't able to be there?

[00:33:26] Zoe Rosenberg: yeah. So the trial starts May 16th in Santa Rosa, California. It's about an hour drive from San Francisco, and it's expected to last around two weeks. I mean, it's hard to predict with these things exactly how long it will be, but people can come out for any number of days to support and yeah, it'll just Be, really amazing to have people there to just show the prosecutors and the public that we're not going to be deterred by this, that we're a movement that's united and committed to moving forward and amplifying the stories of these animals.

If you can't come in person. we also have a petition and an open letter at righttorescue.com that you can sign. essentially, it's asking Sonoma County law enforcement to divert the resources that they're spending on my prosecution to instead investigate and prosecute companies like Petaluma Poultry. And, yeah, it's great if people can sign that as well. I think I didn't mention, but if you do think you might be able to come to some amount of time for the trial, we have a registration form at dxe.io/register that you can fill out.

And there's also like more details there about where to go and what time and, and things like that.

[00:34:36] Mariann Sullivan: Okay, great. And we'll try to put those links in the show notes.

[00:34:39] Zoe Rosenberg: Awesome.

[00:34:40] Mariann Sullivan: yeah, no, I hope some people can come and I know everybody will be thinking about you even if they can't be there.

We're all in awe, We really are, of your courage and, I just hope it gets a lot of press and it really makes everything you've gone through a little bit more worthwhile. if you'll stay on for a minute, maybe we can do a little extra for the bonus content.

And thank you so much for joining us today, Zoe.

[00:35:04] Zoe Rosenberg: Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me.