The Hen Report: “Liberation, baby.” – Animal Rights & Grassroots Activism News

[00:00:07] Mariann Sullivan: That was Jasmin's idea.

[00:00:09] Jasmin Singer: It didn't really work.

[00:00:10] Mariann Sullivan: It sounded stupid..

[00:00:11] Jasmin Singer: Yeah. It sounded so stupid. We're, you know, now doing our new format and schedule. We've divided our podcast.

[00:00:19] Mariann Sullivan: We need to describe that.

[00:00:20] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes, I'll go back to it in a second.

But we've basically have divided our long podcast into the same exact segments you know, and hopefully love, but into three different podcasts going up the same week. And so our first

[00:00:35] Mariann Sullivan: Triple the amount of work for actually not doing really a whole lot more work.

[00:00:39] Jasmin Singer: That's, that's right. So, our first like full YouTube guest was Sebastian Joy and we had no idea what we were doing. So I was like, this is Jasmin singer.

[00:00:49] Mariann Sullivan: A little shaky.

[00:00:50] Jasmin Singer: And you said, and this is Mariann Sullivan. And he said, and this is Sebastian Joy. And I was like talking over him at the same time because there's a lot of [00:01:00] kinks to iron out.

You wouldn't know. We've been doing this for going on 16 years.

[00:01:04] Mariann Sullivan: We find change difficult.

[00:01:05] Jasmin Singer: Like a driver. We've been doing Our Hen House for like a driver length of time. Like a child who was born and became a driver.

[00:01:12] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Unfortunately, a child who was born and became a driver learned a lot of things in those 16 years,

[00:01:19] Jasmin Singer: True. And we, we haven't changed,

[00:01:21] Mariann Sullivan: We haven't learned much. Yeah.

[00:01:22] Jasmin Singer: But we're also on YouTube. That was one of the

[00:01:25] Mariann Sullivan: Big development.

That's the thing that has turned my life upside down.

[00:01:30] Jasmin Singer: Why, why has it turned your life upside down?

[00:01:32] Mariann Sullivan: I put makeup on.

[00:01:34] Jasmin Singer: Well, I mean, you don't, first of all, you don't have to do that. You know that, right?

[00:01:37] Mariann Sullivan: I saw myself the first time we recorded without makeup, and I feel like I, I have to.

[00:01:42] Jasmin Singer: Okay.

[00:01:43] Mariann Sullivan: It's not a lot of makeup. I mean, I don't use a lot of makeup, but you know, I need to like, you know, you kind of fade away as you get older.

[00:01:49] Jasmin Singer: What, what makeup do you use? Like what? No, but I mean, what brand? Do you remember the brand?

[00:01:55] Mariann Sullivan: I don't know. I get it at that, at Marilla's Zero Waste store.

It is all vegan. Uh, [00:02:00] obviously.

[00:02:00] Jasmin Singer: And it's all like paper.

[00:02:02] Mariann Sullivan: Right. It's incredibly virtuous in every way.

[00:02:06] Jasmin Singer: Well, I have tattooed makeup.

[00:02:08] Mariann Sullivan: Well, I had tattooed makeup and I have to go again because it, it was a year ago and it doesn't last forever.

[00:02:14] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it's semi-permanent.

[00:02:15] Mariann Sullivan: Expensive, but it's kind of worth it.

[00:02:17] Jasmin Singer: But I buy, I tend to buy really expensive makeup, so if I save that amount of money on makeup, then I'm like spending it on the permanent makeup.

[00:02:25] Mariann Sullivan: I buy whatever they have at

[00:02:27] Jasmin Singer: I have eyeliner on the top and bottom. I have eyebrows, so microblading and I have lip blushing. Yep.

[00:02:34] Mariann Sullivan: The lip blushing is really good. Well, this isn't really that related to animal rights, but as you get older, your lips fade. Did you know that?

[00:02:42] Jasmin Singer: Well, I don't know. You keep, it's like your.

[00:02:44] Mariann Sullivan: Less distinct.

[00:02:45] Jasmin Singer: It sounds like you're disappearing into nothingness. That's what, like, you're just like, it's

[00:02:50] Mariann Sullivan: I'm not sure that's how I'd put it.

But yeah, kind of. You kind of just fade away...

[00:02:54] Jasmin Singer: You know what you remind me of? I just thought of it. Okay. I read years ago, I read the Time Traveler's Wife, and then it [00:03:00] became a movie. So I watched the movie.

Since I had... it's a little intense, like you wouldn't realize it, but it's like very upsetting.

[00:03:06] Mariann Sullivan: All right.

[00:03:07] Jasmin Singer: Anyway, so in the movie, the when, when the guy is time traveling, he doesn't ever know when it's gonna happen and he just starts to like disappear like a little at a time and then he winds up re reappearing in the other place where he winds up.

But that makes it, that sounds like you, that's what's happening.

[00:03:23] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, maybe I'm time traveling.

[00:03:25] Jasmin Singer: If you could time travel, where would you try time travel to?

[00:03:28] Mariann Sullivan: I mean, I have to say I think it would be the future, even though I don't anticipate like anything good about the future? I just wanna know what happens. You know? I think that's the most annoying thing about dying. I don't think dying is scary. I just think it's disappointing 'cause you don't find out happens.

[00:03:42] Jasmin Singer: Also, you're 75 years old. Like you're not, you're not dying!

[00:03:47] Mariann Sullivan: I didn't say I was dying! I just meant.... like, why? I mean, at some point.

Like, so will you and don't you kind of wonder like, you know,

[00:03:56] Jasmin Singer: What'll happen?

[00:03:57] Mariann Sullivan: never the right time. And not only because you would [00:04:00] like to go on living, but because there's always things to be curious about how it's gonna turn out and all of a sudden you are never gonna know.

So I would, I would go somewhere in the future, probably not too far, because I don't have very high hopes.

[00:04:11] Jasmin Singer: Yeah. What if you wake up and it's just you and a bunch of rats and pigeons?

[00:04:16] Mariann Sullivan: know, I,

[00:04:17] Jasmin Singer: That would be fine. I do too. Uh, and some roaches, I think. I think it's gonna be the rats, the pigeons, the roaches and mushrooms.

[00:04:24] Mariann Sullivan: right.

[00:04:25] Jasmin Singer: Mariann, I don't think I told you this, I don't think I told you this. My next Environmental Connections episode is going to be about mushrooms

[00:04:33] Mariann Sullivan: You didn't tell me!?

[00:04:34] Jasmin Singer: And climate change.

[00:04:35] Mariann Sullivan: I wanna hear!

[00:04:36] Jasmin Singer: I know I haven't started planning it yet, actually, so feel free to, you know, help if you would like.

[00:04:41] Mariann Sullivan: I don't know anything. I just wanna know.

[00:04:44] Jasmin Singer: Okay, so let's tell our listeners who probably, I'm sure a lot of them are confused. So

[00:04:48] Mariann Sullivan: Well, not everybody hangs on our every word.

[00:04:52] Jasmin Singer: You, you explain it.

[00:04:53] Mariann Sullivan: We broke up the podcast, which was getting outlandishly long, into three parts and [00:05:00] we're going to publish each segment separately. Rising Anxieties on Tuesdays, The Hen Report, which is basically the top of the show where we bullshit,

[00:05:09] Jasmin Singer: Which is the, I don't know if you can curse on YouTube. I'm not sure. Do you know? You watch YouTube all the time. Can you curse on YouTube?

[00:05:15] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, people curse all the time.

[00:05:17] Jasmin Singer: Alright, then continue.

[00:05:19] Mariann Sullivan: And you know, our long form interview, but just the interview on Fridays. And I'm calling it our long form interview because I would like occasionally to do very short interviews with people who are in the news or whatever, but we'll see if we can make that work. We kind of did that a couple of weeks ago with Michael

[00:05:34] Jasmin Singer: Michael. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:36] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. So if you hate change as many of us, including myself, do, you can just listen to the whole thing on Friday and, um, you don't have to watch on YouTube. I mean, it won't go in exactly the same order, but you know, I'm counting on you to be able to cope with that.

So the content is g gonna be the it's just gonna be broken up and we're gonna be able to tell people, oh yeah, we do three podcasts a week instead of [00:06:00] one.

[00:06:00] Jasmin Singer: Well, okay, so.

[00:06:01] Mariann Sullivan: Sounds good.

[00:06:02] Jasmin Singer: One of the reasons for this, there were many, but one of the reasons was because I was reading this like report on podcast stats and like a huge percentage of podcast listeners stop listening less than halfway through if, uh,

[00:06:19] Mariann Sullivan: If

[00:06:20] Jasmin Singer: or I should say at 20 to 30 minutes in.

[00:06:22] Mariann Sullivan: yeah.

[00:06:23] Jasmin Singer: so maybe this way we could capture you more and we could capture more listeners and then, uh.

[00:06:28] Mariann Sullivan: Sounds a little aggressive.

[00:06:30] Jasmin Singer: Well, that's the plan. We're going to go to everyone's house and capture them and put them in front of us and make them...

[00:06:38] Mariann Sullivan: and as Jasmin mentioned, the other change is that we're also putting each of these, uh, podcasts, I have to start calling them separate podcasts up on YouTube. And so we're filming them. I mean, we've always filmed them. It's just that we're the only people who saw the film and this is where if you like us even a little bit, it would be really, really helpful if you could go to [00:07:00] YouTube. You don't have to listen on YouTube if you don't want to though, you know, we look good. but just subscribe and if you can, and you go on again, each, just put a like on the episodes and that's because YouTube is this weird thing.

It's a combination of a platform where you can put your content out plus social media. Which I guess all social media, you're putting your content out, but it's very short. On YouTube, you're putting out like big content, like a whole podcast or something. But it also is social media. It also has an algorithm.

It also feeds your content to other people, and that's how you grow. And right now we're very small on YouTube, which, you know, everyone is, when they start off on YouTube, that's what they tell me. So I, to keep me from getting hysterical. If you could do that, that would be really a big solid.

[00:07:43] Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Also, if you're watching this on YouTube, you will know that my hair dried like Farrah Faucet today. It, but like this is like a thing, it just flips up at,

[00:07:55] Mariann Sullivan: Now that we're on YouTube, we're gonna talk about your hair every week?

[00:07:58] Jasmin Singer: I don't know. We talk about your hair all the [00:08:00] time, so why not?

[00:08:01] Mariann Sullivan: When ?

[00:08:01] Jasmin Singer: All

[00:08:01] Mariann Sullivan: we

[00:08:01] Jasmin Singer: right, let's move on. So it's, it's finally spring sort of. I mean, it is, right? Like it's, I know it's been spring technically for a while, but it has not felt like spring and suddenly.

[00:08:14] Mariann Sullivan: Springs where we live are very long, a little chilly, and I love them. I love this weather. I mean, they're a little more rainy than I would prefer, but I actually like rain. Yeah, they do go on forever. But then, you know, at some point it gets hot and then it's really hot.

[00:08:27] Jasmin Singer: No, the, the very famous, uh, lilac festival is starting this weekend. I know you're saying it's not famous, but it is in this area.

[00:08:36] Mariann Sullivan: I'm not sure even Rochester...

[00:08:38] Jasmin Singer: In Western New York.

[00:08:39] Mariann Sullivan: could call itself famous.

[00:08:40] Jasmin Singer: Alright.

[00:08:41] Mariann Sullivan: Lilac Festival.

[00:08:43] Jasmin Singer: Famous in my house because it's like a block from my house. So we could actually hear it from our, 'cause there's, it's a big deal.

There's lots of bands. Uh, and you could hear the music from my house and.

[00:08:53] Mariann Sullivan: Lots of food, most of which is not vegan.

[00:08:55] Jasmin Singer: By the way, speaking of food and Rochester, so [00:09:00] the grocery store Wegmans started in Rochester and it's like people are completely obsessed with Wegmans. It's sort of like Whole Foods, so it kind of has a cult following And my mom lives in Vermont.

[00:09:14] Mariann Sullivan: Which is just bizarre 'cause it's like a supermarket. It's a nice supermarket.

[00:09:17] Jasmin Singer: It's a supermarket. So my mom lives in Vermont and I was saying to her, oh yeah, like, well, I have to stop at Wegmans.

And she was like, you have a Wegmans!?! Like, so excited. And there's the, we.

[00:09:30] Mariann Sullivan: Marketing people were or are, they are doing a standup job.

[00:09:34] Jasmin Singer: Even the, I don't even know if you know this, but even the Toy Museum here, which is actually pretty famous, the Toy Museum here, because they do the National Toy Hall of Fame.

[00:09:42] Mariann Sullivan: That is the main attraction of Rochester. It's always listed first

[00:09:46] Jasmin Singer: They have a miniature Wegmans, the Play Museum. They have a miniature Wegmans for children to go in with their little carts in their tiny little cashier thingies.

You could go in it, it's like a whole thing.

[00:09:58] Mariann Sullivan: That's hilarious. It's [00:10:00] a supermarket!

[00:10:01] Jasmin Singer: Actually the first time I ever heard about Wegmans was that undercover investigation.

[00:10:06] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:10:06] Jasmin Singer: Yeah,

[00:10:07] Mariann Sullivan: Adam Durand, who we talked about a couple because we ran into him at the local Unitarian church where Jasmin was talking.

LIke, it's a small town, Rochester.

[00:10:17] Jasmin Singer: And a medium city.

[00:10:18] Mariann Sullivan: I have always hated Wegmans because at the time he was doing an undercover investigation of their egg facility. Which at the time they owned, they don't own their own battery cage facilities anymore. They just buy their eggs from somewhere else, which I don't know whether that's better or not, but they were horrible. I mean, they had a huge influence with local prosecutors and they just went after him and he ended up doing time.

[00:10:40] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, but he, he's like a heroic in my, he is,

[00:10:43] Mariann Sullivan: Heroic. just the lovliest guy.

[00:10:45] Jasmin Singer: Amazing activist. So that was the first time I heard about it. That was a while ago. That was like 15, 16, 17 years ago. But anyhow, so CBS Sunday morning, which is like one of my favorite shows because I'm a very, very, very old [00:11:00] 45. Yeah. I just double my age.

They did a segment on Wegmans, which we were like, what? Like what? How did their PR people get them to do a segment on? So I was so excited.

[00:11:12] Mariann Sullivan: Their PR people are amazing..

[00:11:13] Jasmin Singer: So I start watching it and I'm like, giddy, right? Because they're like starting in Rochester, New York and they're like showing it and this and that.

And I'm so exci, I have so much pride. Like there's this giant line around the block when they opened a new one. And then they also talked about how a ridiculous amount of people applied for jobs there last year, like 350,000.

[00:11:33] Mariann Sullivan: Might be a good place to work. I don't know. I mean, I think I have heard that.

[00:11:36] Jasmin Singer: And, and they, they chose the tiniest percentage. Okay. So I'm sitting there like, wow, this is so cool.

Then they start showing a lot of meat and I'm like, okay. They could like show other stuff, right? Like they're showing the meat counter.

[00:11:47] Mariann Sullivan: They did show the produce department. It talked about how amazing it was and

[00:11:50] Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Briefly.

[00:11:51] Mariann Sullivan: It's like it was a produce department in a nice supermarket.

[00:11:54] Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

[00:11:55] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it's nice.

[00:11:57] Jasmin Singer: Right. It's apples. [00:12:00] Uh, but yeah. Anyway, so, and I will say very annoying thing is that they have a, a section that they call the vegan section and they put like the oat milk and stuff in that section. And I was once overhearing,

I was once overhearing a guy looking at the cow's milk, but looking for oat milk and being like, they don't have oat milk here.

And I'm like, I happen to hear 'em. I'm like, oh, it's in aisle four. You know?

[00:12:24] Mariann Sullivan: Oh,

[00:12:24] Jasmin Singer: So that's.

[00:12:25] Mariann Sullivan: around at

[00:12:25] Jasmin Singer: I know, but, okay, so let me get to my point. So there's actually a restaurant attached to Wegman's here. It's actually, it's across the street, but it's called Next Door. And it's a sushi restaurant and they just opened one in New York City, so a high end sushi restaurant.

So this segment on CBS Sunday morning starts talking about the sushi restaurant, they're talking to like the Wegman's family, and they were talking about how it's Japanese tuna, which is as opposed to some other kind of tuna. I don't remember what kind, [00:13:00] and the reporter said, what's the difference between these two kinds of tuna? And the Wegmans family folks said.

Well with these, we put the fish to sleep first, and while they're sleeping, we say, you had a nice life. And then we kill them and then the reporter replied. So, uh,

[00:13:18] Mariann Sullivan: So interesting. I

[00:13:20] Jasmin Singer: yeah, they're,

[00:13:21] Mariann Sullivan: didn't see

[00:13:21] Jasmin Singer: the reporter replied something like, uh, along the lines of, so these are much happier fish. Yeah. And then they all got a chuckle.

[00:13:29] Mariann Sullivan: Well, it sounds, I mean, two thoughts come to mind. One is rising anxieties. I mean, like they actually think that people think about the welfare of the fish, like that's an issue.

I don't think would've happened five, 10 years ago.

[00:13:45] Jasmin Singer: I like that. I like that perspective.

[00:13:46] Mariann Sullivan: Unless this is true, which seems remarkably unlikely, I would say there's a lawsuit in order.

[00:13:54] Jasmin Singer: Adam, are you listening? Adam, can you hear me? Uh, yeah.

[00:13:57] Mariann Sullivan: I'm not sure Adam can bring a

[00:13:59] Jasmin Singer: [00:14:00] Sure. No, Adam can do anything.

[00:14:01] Mariann Sullivan: Somebody should.

Somebody should do that.

Just because he is not a lawyer. I mean, so it'd be a stretch.

[00:14:07] Jasmin Singer: Well, okay, I have lots of legal questions, but I'll save them for later. But that was really sad. I still go to Wegmans. We go to so many different grocery stores 'cause Moore does the majority of the grocery shopping and so she needs to go to.

[00:14:22] Mariann Sullivan: I have absolutely no food in the house. Do you think she'd be willing to buy

[00:14:25] Jasmin Singer: Probably, but you know, I could also order like, you know, DoorDash for you or something.

[00:14:29] Mariann Sullivan: I ate a handful of walnuts for breakfast this

[00:14:31] Jasmin Singer: That is pathetic.

[00:14:32] Mariann Sullivan: Which is good...

[00:14:33] Jasmin Singer: All right, but you need some groceries. But anyway, so like, yeah, Wagman's is our seltzer, Trader Joe's is our soy milk. Uh, you know, whole Foods is our this, or the co-op is our, that yada yada. It's like ridiculous, like grocery shopping is,

[00:14:49] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:14:49] Jasmin Singer: a, is a, uh, Olympic sport in my house. Yeah. Remember when we used to live in New York City and we would just go to the bodega on the corner whenever we were hungry and we would just like [00:15:00] go that day?

I loved that. anyway. All right, so I do love Rochester, but I am going to be getting out of it for about a week because I'm going to Los Angeles next week for the AVA conference.

[00:15:09] Mariann Sullivan: You'll be reporting back so people can be looking forward to hearing out what's going on at Ava.

[00:15:13] Jasmin Singer: Yeah. I mean, yes. I'm just thinking next week when we do this the conference will not have started yet, but I will be there, so Yeah.

Yeah. We'll figure it all out.

[00:15:25] Mariann Sullivan: I'm not going anywhere and I haven't done anything or seen anything interesting on tv. I went to Taco Tuesday at Dickies, which we talk about all the time because it's the only thing I ever do, but they have great vegan tacos. It's down the street from me.

[00:15:39] Jasmin Singer: Oh, we're gonna the Harriet Tubman house on Saturday.

[00:15:41] Mariann Sullivan: We're going to the Harriet Tubman house in, um, what is it in?

[00:15:45] Jasmin Singer: Is it? Am her Amherst or?

[00:15:47] Mariann Sullivan: With an A.

[00:15:48] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it's an A, it's Adam, Adam Durand town. I'm just gonna assume every name that begins with an well.

[00:15:56] Mariann Sullivan: That's sad. The memory...particularly yours because [00:16:00] you're 45.

[00:16:01] Jasmin Singer: I have a really bad one and I like it's, it's really upsetting.

[00:16:05] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah but you've always had a bad one. Like I used to haveI. Good one.

[00:16:08] Jasmin Singer: Mine is terrible. It's like embarrassing. I'm really nervous about Ava because I don't think I'm going to remember anyone at all, even if I've been like best friends with them in the past.

Like I just, I, I,

[00:16:18] Mariann Sullivan: Just assume that, you know, you're very important and that's why you

[00:16:22] Jasmin Singer: oh my God,

[00:16:22] Mariann Sullivan: these

[00:16:23] Jasmin Singer: I don't, that isn't the case.

[00:16:25] Mariann Sullivan: how are you?

[00:16:26] Jasmin Singer: I hopefully people will have names, name tags on or something. Um, alright, so Plant-based News just reported that New York City has been crowned the best city for vegans in the US this year. So.

[00:16:37] Mariann Sullivan: is reported in Plant-based News, but they didn't do the, um, and it's kind of a stupid survey. This is by Liam Pritchett, but I wanted to put it in on here because I knew you would be excited because you are longing to take a trip to New York City as you like to do once in a while. And,

[00:16:51] Jasmin Singer: Well, I lived there for 20 years. It's really hard once you've lived in like New York City to like just leave. It's hard.

[00:16:58] Mariann Sullivan: Except that when you go back, [00:17:00] it's all different.

[00:17:00] Jasmin Singer: I know, but I wanna see the new, I wanna see the new Sunset Boulevard on Broadway.

[00:17:05] Mariann Sullivan: According to this article, New York City has at least 2,420 vegan, vegetarian, and gluten-free restaurants. How did gluten-free get in here?

Because it was done by this company. It says it's a British gambling company, but they, you know, it's for advertising and marketing purposes. And the vegan data was analyzed as part of a wider search to find the coolest North American city. They didn't come to Rochester, I don't think. I can't imagine why. They do mention, you know, that in New York City, there are a lot of actual vegan restaurants, not like places that just have a good vegan menu or that are gluten free. And one of the ones they mentioned is 11 Madison Park, and we were to the bar there recently, but we have listeners who have promised us a dinner there

[00:17:51] Jasmin Singer: Oh my God, I can't believe you just said that.

[00:17:53] Mariann Sullivan: I'm waiting.

[00:17:54] Jasmin Singer: I can, I just can't believe you just said that. I am mortified on your behalf. Well.

I'm

[00:17:59] Mariann Sullivan: [00:18:00] waiting.

[00:18:00] Jasmin Singer: Alright.

[00:18:00] Mariann Sullivan: Alright, so I just thought you would enjoy that article though. That's why I put it in there, even though it's kind of stupid 'cause it includes gluten-free, but I'm sure New York City really does have completely off the hook vegan food. There's no doubt. But I have another New York City story to report on.

This is from Friends of Animals. And this will sound like an insane story if you're not from New York, but if you're from New York and you have been following animal rights stuff for a while. It will sound familiar. Big win, big arrest, made in the Big Apple and, oh, that's the name of the story and they're, we're talking about pigeons. And pigeon poaching is a huge problem in New York City, has been for a long time.

And there was just this big arrest because on April 30th, these officers from the ninth Precinct, which is downtown in Manhattan, found this guy Dwayne Daley of Bushkill, Pennsylvania, stealing, with a large black net, pigeons outta Tompkins Square Park.

This has happened many times before and it's a disgrace, but it didn't, you know, I don't think the police [00:19:00] used to be on it the way they are now.

So that's really reassuring. They tracked him to his truck, which had Pennsylvania license plates, which means of course, and it already had 25 pigeons in it, who were let go. And of course, it's for pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania. I mean, that's what it's always been for.

They round up New York's pigeons, take them to Pennsylvania and shoot them like pe. How sick is that?

[00:19:22] Jasmin Singer: That used to happen when I was leading these New York City, uh, anti-foie gras protests on the Upper West side. Um, also it was like happening a block away from where we were every Sunday and,

[00:19:34] Mariann Sullivan: It used to be, I think, uh, much less watched by the cops.

They're on it and they're really doing something about it. This guy's gotta face charges.

[00:19:43] Jasmin Singer: Well, the public's role in this arrest is, you know, I think a good reminder of our collective responsibility, especially in this day and age. 'cause it was, I think, a concerned park goer who alerted the authorities, which led to the rescue of over 25 pigeons. [00:20:00] And I find that really inspiring.

So, I consider this, you know. Sure. We could call it a win, but it's sort of a call to action, right? Like, when can we speak up and, and when?

[00:20:12] Mariann Sullivan: In back in the day, people probably more used to shrug and say, well, what are you gonna do?

[00:20:16] Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

[00:20:17] Mariann Sullivan: And now like people call the cops and the cops is asking the public to to immediately report it. If they suspect anyone of kidnapping pigeons. They're taking it seriously.

[00:20:27] Jasmin Singer: Alright, well, from the East coast to the Midwest. Investigate Midwest just dropped a report that reads like a horror show.

[00:20:34] Mariann Sullivan: I'm not familiar with this site, it is not an animal rights site by any means, and it doesn't even only cover agriculture. It does investigative reporting, which of course is incredibly important. I. In the Midwest, and so a lot of it is going to be agriculture. I think it, it seems to focus on Illinois and Iowa.

This is about bird flu and the title of the story is Underage Workers, Millions of Dollars and Trucks Full of Dead Chickens: Inside the [00:21:00] business of killing in response to Bird Flu.

[00:21:02] Jasmin Singer: It's all in the name of Bird Flu response. But I would say this isn't about public health, right? Like this is more about an industry that is reliant on hurting both animals and people considering them completely disposable, especially when these outbreaks hit and, and they're scaling up.

[00:21:22] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it's about public health as well. I mean, it's about, it is not particularly about animals because that is not their beat and that is not what they're doing. But they have come up with, you know, the harm to the animals is kind of obvious. And, it's a really, really well reported piece and something which I didn't know.

The federal government has a single contractor doing all of this work. So when they find bird flu in their flock, and as soon as they find it, the flock gets wiped out. I mean, I guess it's inevitable that they'll all get it. I assume that's the thinking. They have to wait until this contractor is available to come and kill all their birds you know, is available and is going to be paid for [00:22:00] by your tax money. They call it depopulating. This, this article goes into more detail than you probably wanna know, but it's really, really powerful stuff. Extensive use of underage workers, just kids doing this. The workers are not getting personal protective equipment, and they're not wearing it.

It says here that dealing with a federal backlog, some farms have used killing methods considered inhumane. But the methods they use are inhumane. I mean, foam used to be the way you would do mass killings of animals, but they're not doing that 'cause it's too expensive.

What they do is pretty much, they either turn the heat up and wait for them all to die, or they just go in there and smother them in, I think it's in carbon dioxide, like It's just horrifying. Um,

[00:22:43] Jasmin Singer: I, I actually am really glad this article exists because I think of my, you know, my meat eating brother who lives in Kansas, speaking of the Midwest,

[00:22:51] Mariann Sullivan: Could you send this to him?

[00:22:53] Jasmin Singer: He, this is the kind of thing that he would like perk up for because I just, I can't get him on the animal issue. [00:23:00] But when I talk about the exploitation of children and marginalized communities in general, he's more interested, but I'm sure he'll think it's just like a one time thing. And obviously this is not at all a one time thing. It's a systemic failure. But yeah, this is the kind of article you could send to your family members or my family members if you'd like to. But let's talk about, uh,

[00:23:22] Mariann Sullivan: Let me add this one statistic, since 2022, the top three chicken firm, or chicken and Turkey, Jenny o Turkey is actually the highest recipient of federal money. They have received more than $280 million of your tax money. Okay.

[00:23:35] Jasmin Singer: Jesus. Well, all right. Let's talk about the Trump administration's latest moves because

[00:23:40] Mariann Sullivan: yeah, it's just a little follow up on the bird flu.

[00:23:43] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, these are not just misguided, they're pretty dangerous. Do you wanna talk about the USDA's new $1 billion bird Flu? Flu plan?

[00:23:50] Mariann Sullivan: I kind of talked about this before, but I wanted to reiterate it in light of that story, because it all goes together and the Trump plan is to spend a billion [00:24:00] dollars of your tax money to address avian flu. You know, it's not gonna address everything. It doesn't address anything about the problem of whether we're all gonna die.

And it doesn't even address the dairy problem that it spread to cows. This is just for the chickens. 500 million towards biosecurity, isn't that something that the chicken companies should pay for their own biosecurity and 400 million to pay for the costs of replacing flocks that are quote, unquote culled during outbreaks.

I love that word culled. Just change. Change the sound of it. And you don't just say killed anymore. So yeah, again, this is what we're paying for. I don't wanna dwell on it. This is a depressing topic. And it's not like there's any real news. It's just that, you know,

[00:24:48] Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

[00:24:48] Mariann Sullivan: The new Secretary of Agriculture, what's her first name?

Her Na, her last name is Rollins. You know, she's on it. She just wants to get the money out. I thought the Federal government was supposed to be spending less money? Not when it [00:25:00] comes to animal ag.

[00:25:01] Jasmin Singer: It's not just bad policy, it's a total betrayal of public trust. And when I send my brother the article that I just mentioned, since he lives in Kansas, maybe I could also send him this next one, just slip it into the email because.

[00:25:14] Mariann Sullivan: Article is from Farm Stand, which is, I have, have interviewed a number of their lawyers on the Animal Law podcast. They are really doing unbelievably outstanding work. You know, it's not a specifically animal rights oriented organization. They cover a bunch of the dire issues rising out of animal agriculture, but there are a lot of lawyers there who are very animal oriented and their reporting also, it doesn't ignore the animal issue. I love this organization. I have high hopes for it.

[00:25:45] Jasmin Singer: Let's talk more about what's going on with Kansas, because Kansas seems to be our big focus, the Midwest, at the moment. So just when you think

[00:25:56] Mariann Sullivan: There are a lot of animals in the Midwest.

[00:25:57] Jasmin Singer: There are, and just when you think that bar for [00:26:00] cruelty can't get any lower Animal Equality dropped another expose. This time from a pig breeding facility in Kansas linked to Ahold Delhaize, which is the parent company of Stop and Shop, Giant, and Food Lion.

And the footage is really gut wrenching. We're not going to link to that, but it's pregnant pigs immobilized in gestation crates that are, you know, as per use so tight they can't turn around. It's dead piglets, littering the floors.

[00:26:27] Mariann Sullivan: We don't have to go into detail. Everyone knows what these undercover investigations are like, you know, you don't hear about them as much anymore. They don't get the kind of press that they used to. But I just thought I would put this in there because this is the parent company of Stop and Shop, Giant, and Food Lion. So these are the major, other than Wegman's, which I'm sure is sourcing from just as problematic sources, but I don't know specifically. But this is the mainstream food business in the US. They promised they were gonna phase out gestation crates. and then they're going back on that promise.

[00:26:57] Jasmin Singer: I sort of saw this coming, like, it was a long time [00:27:00] ago and there, there was a long phase out and it just seemed really unrealistic.

[00:27:04] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, now they're saying 2028, and

[00:27:08] Jasmin Singer: Yeah,

[00:27:08] Mariann Sullivan: limited only for some of their products. So

[00:27:10] Jasmin Singer: Right.

[00:27:11] Mariann Sullivan: like you can't fix this.

It's not fixable.

We've established that, so let's just quit it. Okay?

[00:27:19] Jasmin Singer: Liberation, baby. So the Revelator just dropped a piece that's...

[00:27:25] Mariann Sullivan: I don't know whether this story like appeals to anybody else, but you know how much I love beavers, so I had to,

[00:27:31] Jasmin Singer: love beavers too.

[00:27:33] Mariann Sullivan: include it. I

[00:27:34] Jasmin Singer: Yeah,

[00:27:35] Mariann Sullivan: Go read this. If you're feeling down, go read this story.

[00:27:39] Jasmin Singer: So in Southern Oregon's Cascade Siskiyou National Monument, a group of volunteers, so people who have day jobs and snowshoes apparently, hauled a family of beavers into a degraded meadow to jumpstart ecological restoration.

[00:27:58] Mariann Sullivan: That does make it [00:28:00] sound like there had been no preparation. And actually the people, I mean, this land seems to be privately owned, so people could do what they wanted. And what these people wanted to do is to prepare it for beavers. So they've been working on a long time on planting willows, which beavers love, and, and doing a lot of things to make a home for beavers. The beavers finally arrived. The beavers were trapped in a place where they were at high risk. And you know, they might not make it where they are, who knows? And beavers also sometimes move on. Sometimes they don't like where they're put, they go, no, we're going somewhere else.

So, you know, there's no guarantees, but I think the point that they're making too is that the kind of things that beavers do to the land, which, you know, they chop down trees sometimes they chop down trees that people want there. They make wetlands out of dry meadows. And a lot of people would prefer to have a dry meadow where you could, you know, graze your cows or even just have a picnic than a wetland.

But wetlands are really, really, really a good thing. And beavers just do the right thing. And there are also ways, like if there are trees you [00:29:00] don't want them to get, there are ways to manage that. You can protect the trees with fencing and stuff, but you know, nobody wants to spend the money. So, but these people are doing this privately. It does indicate that, you know, the money that was designated for this kind of work is now gone because of the Trump administration.

[00:29:17] Jasmin Singer: Even though the Trump administration has frozen that crucial grant funding, leaving projects like these, no doubt scrambling for various resources. What I love about this is that instead of capitulating, these communities are doubling down and they're really proving that real change can happen from the bottom up.

And I know that that is debatable for like many of our guests, or some of our guests, I should say, really feel that the way forward is policy and grassroots is antiquated. But you know, when I see things like this, it's just really inspiring because it's not just about beavers, although even if it was just about beavers, I would be happy.

But this is really about reclaiming agency in the face of [00:30:00] institutional apathy.

[00:30:01] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, and I love the way that this writer puts it, and I don't think I said her name. I have to go back and get her name, but let me just read this quote. Over a dozen people chose to drive up from the valley on a Tuesday morning to strap on snowshoes and witness beavers sliding into a creek. Last summer nearly a hundred people showed up to take part in a beaver scavenger hunt in the monument. I'm convinced people will keep showing up for beavers, but also for each other and for themselves. Doing tangibly good work, I've found, is the antidote to despair. In this way, restoration can be revolutionary. Really beautiful article about beautiful people doing beautiful things with just the loveliest animals.

The name of the writer is Juliet Grable.

[00:30:39] Jasmin Singer: Well, thank you for that and thank you Mariann for finding that article. Now let's talk about air butter.

[00:30:45] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

[00:30:45] Jasmin Singer: Yes, I said that right. Air butter.

[00:30:47] Mariann Sullivan: I, I, you know, I don't really know what to say about this, but the name of the article, it's from Mother Jones. Scientists are ditching cows to make butter from greenhouse gases, and that's what it's about. This is about this firm called [00:31:00] Saver, which is only founded in 2022, and they have figured out ways to make fat molecules out of gases, including greenhouse gases. And the goal is to create sustainable fats without cows or crops, which seems like a really, really good goal to me. And one of the fats that they plan on making is butter. Also, they're working on tallow and ice cream.

[00:31:25] Jasmin Singer: This sounds like sci-fi.

[00:31:26] Mariann Sullivan: Yeah,

[00:31:27] Jasmin Singer: It really does.

[00:31:28] Mariann Sullivan: It is an energy user.

So their hope is to get to net zero, that it's not actually gonna be completely removing greenhouse gases from the environment 'cause it also produces them, but it could like be a wash. And also no cows have to be involved. Yeah.

[00:31:43] Jasmin Singer: It really does sound like sci-fi to me. I think it's.

[00:31:47] Mariann Sullivan: This could be a joke for all I know.

I know nothing about how... i've heard before of like people making food out of air. And it always sounds like somebody's making fun of us, but apparently [00:32:00] not.

[00:32:01] Jasmin Singer: Well, we'll keep our eye on it. We'll keep our eye on air butter. And what kind of butter do you buy when you buy your butter, by the way? I'm just curious.

[00:32:11] Mariann Sullivan: I try not to buy butter a lot because, you know, I like it a little too much,

But Miyoko' s usually.

[00:32:17] Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I like Miyoko's too. I try to buy the ones without the palm oil, even though I think that the palm oil thought process is sort of flawed.

[00:32:26] Mariann Sullivan: All right, are we gonna get into palm oil right

[00:32:28] Jasmin Singer: No, I, I was just sharing that I like Miyoko's butter

[00:32:31] Mariann Sullivan: right.

[00:32:32] Jasmin Singer: too, and that I try.

[00:32:33] Mariann Sullivan: You can get into palm oil if you want, but it's

[00:32:35] Jasmin Singer: Don't really wanna get into it. Yeah. No, we've actually, we did do an interview on Palm Oil years ago.

[00:32:40] Mariann Sullivan: We have

[00:32:40] Jasmin Singer: Maybe we should revisit that at some point. Alright, let's, uh.

[00:32:43] Mariann Sullivan: an up to date on what people are thinking about palm oil. Leave it up to Vicki.

[00:32:48] Jasmin Singer: So speaking of Vicki, Vicki is putting together an upcoming live panel that you won't wanna miss, but it's not open to everyone. It's open to [00:33:00] our higher level flock members, which we call our Squawk Squad and above members. So $25 a month and above. We will invite you to join us for a panel discussion that we're calling Roots and Rising: Connecting Grassroots Voices.

And it's, it's like, a raw, timely, I would say necessary conversation, spotlighting some frontline change makers in the animal rights spaces. And, and these are really the folks who are doing the unglamorous boots on the ground work. And, you know, we're giving them the mic. So, I hope that you'll join us for that.

The whole panel will hit the Our Hen House podcast feed after the event, but we didn't write on the notes here when it is. Oh, there it is. Okay. June 1st at one o'clock Eastern time. So if you are in the Squawk Squad, which is the $25 and up category of the flock, then please join us for Roots and Rising.

We will send you more info. And if you're in the flock and you would like [00:34:00] to upgrade to $25 a month, or more, then we would love that because that is how Our Hen House continues to thrive. That and some grant funding, and this is about that unfiltered truth from the grassroots. I love grassroots. It's where I started and I'm gonna stay with the importance of it.

[00:34:22] Mariann Sullivan: I think it's just really important to remember that each of us can make a, make a difference.

[00:34:27] Jasmin Singer: Did you wanna talk about those books?

[00:34:29] Mariann Sullivan: There's a new book out, these are two books that I haven't read, but, you know, sometimes I just want you to know about them, and hopefully I'll get to reading them, but I don't want you to have to wait for that. One of them is amazingly by Gail Eisnitz, who, when I told Jasmin we were doing this. She said, well, we're gonna cover Slaughterhouse? You know, it's a great, great book, but it's really old. And I said, no, she has a brand new book out.

[00:34:53] Jasmin Singer: That's awesome.

[00:34:54] Mariann Sullivan: Slaughterhouse was, uh.

[00:34:56] Jasmin Singer: Pretty iconic.

[00:34:57] Mariann Sullivan: one of the books that got many of us started [00:35:00] understanding how bad it is out there. This book, I think is a little bit more personal, um, Out of Sight: An Undercover Investigators Fight for Animal Rights and Her Own Survival. And in the blurb, it does mention that Gail suffered from an undiagnosed neurological disorder, and I've always understood that her sight was very impaired. I assume that's what the title of the book is referring to and it's just her story. I mean, and she kind of invented cruelty investigations and did unbelievably harrowing work looking into so many issues. It's not just even

[00:35:31] Jasmin Singer: I am.

[00:35:32] Mariann Sullivan: Oh, yeah. No,

[00:35:33] Jasmin Singer: I'm sorry that I am, I'm, I'm laughing because I'm only listening to Fox and Eugene right now. But continue, they're, they, they wanna be on YouTube.

[00:35:43] Mariann Sullivan: feed them, so it's not my fault. All right. She's done puppy mills, she's done dog racing, animal sacrifice, and of course factory farms and slaughterhouses. And she's just a hero of this movement, so it's very exciting that

[00:35:56] Jasmin Singer: She is.

[00:35:56] Mariann Sullivan: she has a new book out and, um. [00:36:00] Fox is very excited about it.

Alright, our second book that I wanted to highlight, I actually have the copy with me, is called Censored Landscapes. Censored landscapes, the Hidden Reality of Farming Animals by Isabella La Rocca González, and this is a combination of really beautiful literary writing. Some pieces from some other people, some old things like a, I saw a poem by William Blake in here, and photographs of, the landscape around factory farms, some photographs of animals. But most of the photographs in here are really just photographs of factory farms, which are the most depressing places in the world and it just, these photographs just show how degraded our landscape is by the presence of these, these horrific facilities just bare ugly facilities. I'll just show this one. That's what, that's what our rural [00:37:00] landscape looks like. Uh, that's actually a beautiful sky. But if you can see the buildings, just these, our landscape is just, just as she said, censored landscapes.

They, they're just these hideous, hideous warehouses everywhere. And we know that inside is so much suffering and somehow seeing it from outside really brings it home. Really. I, I mean, there have been a couple of books, uh, like this of late, that have combined literary writing with stories of what's happening to animals and, and photography of what's happening to animals.

And, I'm all for it. So this is another one that you might be interested in.

[00:37:39] Jasmin Singer: I love the name too, Censored Landscapes. It's very evocative. All right. Well, how did you think this went on YouTube? Are you feeling good about it? Are you feeling

[00:37:49] Mariann Sullivan: I keep forgetting on, we're on YouTube, so

[00:37:51] Jasmin Singer: okay.

[00:37:52] Mariann Sullivan: just gonna try not to think about it though. I do. I have to remember to like look at the camera instead of like this

[00:37:58] Jasmin Singer: Hmm. [00:38:00] Honestly, Mariann, your cat is behind you. No one's looking at you anyway. Uh

[00:38:04] Mariann Sullivan: You just stay there. This is this isn't the cat known as Eugene.

[00:38:07] Jasmin Singer: oh. That was Eugene, not Fox.

[00:38:09] Mariann Sullivan: He wanted to be on tv.

[00:38:10] Jasmin Singer: Okay, well, I believe if Eugene could speak English, he would ask you to leave a comment on YouTube or a review on Apple Podcasts. If you're listening to this, you could like this episode on YouTube as well. And yeah, make sure to stay engaged with what we're doing out in the world.

Thanks to Vicki Bechler and Jen Riley for helping this happen. Thanks so much, Mariann. It was fun chatting with you. And until next time.

[00:38:36] Mariann Sullivan: Which we will be up again, uh, I think tomorrow with our interview.