The Hen Report: “Corporate Greenwashing at Industrial Scale” | Methane Digesters, Dairy Industry Spin, Bird Flu Updates

Jasmin Singer: And we're so happy you're with us. This is part of Our Hen House. You already know by now that Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesday.

The Hen Report, which is this, comes out on Thursdays, and the long form interview, uh, comes out most Fridays, the Animal Law Podcast on the last Friday of the month. If you don't feel like remembering that, then just subscribe and it'll all magically appear for you and, uh, if you're in the flock, which thank you if you are, bonus for your flock membership comes out on Tuesdays. Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Tuesdays is right, right? Because Vicki yelled at us that we got it wrong.

Jasmin Singer: Oh, no, no, no. It is Mondays. But the reason we keep saying Tuesdays is 'cause that's on our notes sheet. I'm going to change that now.

Mariann Sullivan: So it's Monday, it used to be Tuesday, and now it's Monday? I'm all confused

Jasmin Singer: We're a podcast and we're on YouTube, so please subscribe and like wherever you listen. Okay.

Mariann Sullivan: And even wherever you don't listen.

Jasmin Singer: And so I have to tell you that I was a lottery ticket because anytime I feel financial strife, I legit go and buy a lottery ticket. Like that's how I deal.

Mariann Sullivan: I, I never buy lottery tickets.

Jasmin Singer: you're

Mariann Sullivan: I think, I think that I'm hopeless

Jasmin Singer: Well,

Mariann Sullivan: I'm always what?

Jasmin Singer: Astounded when you don't win

Mariann Sullivan: I, it's always very, very disappointing when I don't win. But I think also, in another way, I never expect anything good to happen. So I don't know,

Jasmin Singer: well

Mariann Sullivan: I dunno,

Jasmin Singer: I see

Mariann Sullivan: Other people seem to get so much pleasure out of them and uh, I think once I buy it, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna win. And so it's always just buying disappointment.

Jasmin Singer: It's totally buying disappointment.

Mariann Sullivan: It's like going, I'm so not a gambler, like going to casinos. I've always explained why I don't like to go to casinos and play the games is 'cause it's just spending money for anxiety.

Jasmin Singer: I,

Mariann Sullivan: I, which I really don't, I don't need more of.

Jasmin Singer: I like spending money on anxiety because it, I, I just opt in for the ridiculous, but when it comes to lotto tickets, here's what happens in my brain, I am like thinking of something that I would really like to have in my life, whether it's, you know, financial security or like a particular type of electric car that I can't afford, whatever, and,

Mariann Sullivan: Well, financial security is kind, I mean, it's a very valuable thing, but, but

Jasmin Singer: know.

Mariann Sullivan: you could think of something a little bit more entertaining than that.

Jasmin Singer: things that I would like to spend money on. And then what I do,

Mariann Sullivan: All right.

Jasmin Singer: like for example, I want to build a catio with this little tunnel that goes out of our basement window and like winds up in our sun

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I would like one of those too.

Jasmin Singer: So,

Mariann Sullivan: we could get a deal on two of them.

Jasmin Singer: could get one with a really long tunnel from your house to my house. But what, so,

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: is then I think. I can't afford that. And then I go buy a lottery ticket and then I just

Mariann Sullivan: Uh.

Jasmin Singer: assume I'm gonna win and, and I don't need to think about it anymore.

Mariann Sullivan: I honestly don't know why I don't use that as a, um,

Jasmin Singer: it's a coping

Mariann Sullivan: I think I just can't bear the disappointment when I don't win.

Jasmin Singer: I keep touching my eye 'cause I got my eyelashes done today and it keeps

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. We, we can all see that. Well, at least those on YouTube can see it.

Jasmin Singer: So cute. But anyway, it keeps like closing because it's like getting attached to a lower lid eyelash. Like a real one. I digress. Okay, so the reason that I wanted to bring up the lotto was not just to explain how I

Mariann Sullivan: For this,

Jasmin Singer: anxiety,

Mariann Sullivan: exciting conversation.

Jasmin Singer: It's because when we pulled up to the like seven 11, which for those of you not in the US a lucky you, b, can you adopt

Mariann Sullivan: I think there are seven elevens everywhere.

Jasmin Singer: C Oh,

Mariann Sullivan: I don't think it's just us. I think so.

Jasmin Singer: a convenience store. And so we pull up and outside is like an a giant ad for the New York lottery and the ad says could be winning while deciding between oat and almond milk. I'll say that

Mariann Sullivan: So cool.

Jasmin Singer: be winning

Mariann Sullivan: cool.

Jasmin Singer: deciding between oat and almond milk. And I, I stared at it and I was like, uh, waiting for the, the punchline to be like, about the vegan, you know, or like about the oat milk. Like, I'm

Mariann Sullivan: You loser.

Jasmin Singer: exactly. I'm like, okay. What? Like, where's the pie to my face?

Mariann Sullivan: Clearly you're used to being a loser, so come by a lotto ticket,

Jasmin Singer: Exactly. Uh, so,

Mariann Sullivan: but no, no, they just, they just thought that was a good way to, to appeal to a lot of people.

Jasmin Singer: I sent it to you. I'm thinking like, am I the only one? I, I said to you, I, I think this is a little pathetic how excited I am about this. And, and you said, and you said, yeah, but it's, what did you say that it's sort of like when it

Mariann Sullivan: I think it's both pathetic and actually kind of a big deal because you take all of these pathetic little, little tiny little steps towards, you know, people getting it and people, and veganism, and veganism becoming normal and, and they all seem stupid and why am I getting so excited? And, but you put them all together and I mean, it's the tipping point idea like you put all of these together, and at some point everybody just goes, oh my God, why would, why would anyone wanna eat animals? Like, I, I really think that's, that's, I really think that's true. I know I am known as despairing and hopeless, but I really think that at some point there's enough out there in the zeitgeist that pe it normalizes it enough so that people actually look at what we're doing and say, oh yeah, I agree with the vegans.

Well, they probably wouldn't say that. They would probably still say, oh, all those people have been vegan for a long time, are idiots, but now is the moment to be vegan, and that's why I am now. And, and because, and then they start eating the food and they realize it's totally fine, and, and we're there.

Jasmin Singer: All right, well then

Mariann Sullivan: Little, little tiny steps matter.

Jasmin Singer: this the end of Our Hen House? Because we've reached, we've reached the New

Mariann Sullivan: Well, we're not there yet.

Jasmin Singer: yet.

Mariann Sullivan: We're not there yet. Oh. We just made one more tiny little step, but tiny little steps have meaning. You shouldn't like disdain your level of excitement. And I know you were very, very excited about it.

Jasmin Singer: Or.

Mariann Sullivan: And then you felt stupid for being excited that that's, that's the part that you were mistaken that about.

Jasmin Singer: It was

Mariann Sullivan: or.

Jasmin Singer: that almond milk and oat milk are both expensive and you will only be able to decide between them once you've won the lottery. Ooh, I just took it to a bad place. We were in such a good,

Mariann Sullivan: No, I don't think it could even be interpreted that way and any way, that's stupid. I mean, uh, in most places it's, it, the plant-based option is now, um, is, is now no upcharge. So you're fine.

Jasmin Singer: Mm. It's very,

Mariann Sullivan: No, that was wrong. You're wrong. You're, you're actually wrong about that.

Jasmin Singer: I have to tell you, like I don't drink coffee that much. I do drink a lot of caffeine, but I don't drink coffee that much. And when I do,

Mariann Sullivan: kind of, where do you get your caffeine?

Jasmin Singer: pills. I know, I know.

Mariann Sullivan: You could be drinking a delicious cup of coffee and instead you take a pill. Like, what is wrong with you?

Jasmin Singer: I have a funny thing with taste where like sometimes I am completely revolted by certain taste and

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, are, are you pregnant?

Jasmin Singer: Uh, that would be a miracle

Mariann Sullivan: that a thing? Like everybody suddenly hates the taste of coffee when they're pregnant?

Jasmin Singer: I will eat a particular type of pasta and love it and one day I'll be like, this is revolting. And so anyway, the reason I brought that up is because when I do drink coffee, I know you're rolling your eyes at me 'cause this is video, but

Mariann Sullivan: Well, it just sounds idiotic. It does. I'm sorry. Or don't everybody write into me. I know. I'm sorry I was mean to Jasmin. I'm sorry.

Jasmin Singer: should be

Mariann Sullivan: But it like.

Jasmin Singer: name of the podcast.

Mariann Sullivan: Like, it's just weird. I mean, it's not idiotic, I guess if, if you hate it, you hate it, but it's just weird.

Jasmin Singer: And I drink tea sometimes and I used to drink Caffeinated Seltzer, but then Target stopped making it for some reason and we can't find it anywhere else. Uh, so I drink that like.

Mariann Sullivan: I also think it's very sad because coffee is just one of the most delightful things.

Jasmin Singer: I really do. So, so when I, when I do drink it, I try to go to like a, a cute little neighborhood coffee shop, you know, like a mom and mom or a pop and pop mom and pop. see how I made that gay, coffee shop? And I didn't wanna be so heteronormative and saying Mom and Pop.

Um.

Mariann Sullivan: Or you know, one, one owned by somebody who doesn't have children?

Jasmin Singer: Oh, right. I never thought about that. IN mom. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Wow. Jasmin. Um, however,

Mariann Sullivan: your, your horizons here.

Jasmin Singer: I was like at the grocery store and next to the grocery store is a Starbucks and I needed to kill some time. And so I'm like, do I have the Starbucks app still? And I open it and I have like $7 on it.

So I, I go and I get myself a latte and I

Mariann Sullivan: I know you truly believe that if you have money on your Starbucks app, that means it's free. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: I do. Yeah. I know it's, I know it's wrong, but I, it doesn't matter. Like I don't need to rationalize that. But anyway, so I haven't gone to Starbucks in so long that I don't think, I think this is my first time not paying the upcharge.

And it was glorious. 'cause it was only fairly recently that they stopped.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. No, no. It, it feels so much better. I mean, I don't buy that much coffee outside. I like to make my own coffee, but when I do, I, it infuriates me if there's an upcharge.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. And you don't wanna infuriate, Mariann.

Mariann Sullivan: Can I just add the expression? I know it's wrong, but it doesn't matter is exactly what's wrong with the world. Just saying.

Jasmin Singer: Wait, did I say that?

Mariann Sullivan: Just saying. You just said it.

Jasmin Singer: What did I say it? Oh, I said it regarding the, okay, so are you

Mariann Sullivan: About thinking, thinking anything on your app is free.

Jasmin Singer: Saying that I am what's wrong with the world? Is that the point

Mariann Sullivan: I dunno,

Jasmin Singer: of the, because like

Mariann Sullivan: I think that, that thought process, no, I don't think that you are what's wrong with the world? I think that that thought process is, is it causes a lot of, I mean, that's what people say all the time. I know it's wrong, but I don't really care.

Jasmin Singer: As long as it's not this like 45-year-old childless, vegan, lesbian.

Mariann Sullivan: Actually people are usually saying, people are usually saying, I know it's morally wrong, but I don't care. But you know, it doesn't matter. And you were actually saying, I know it's incorrect.

Jasmin Singer: I'm being funny. I mean, I am like, it's, it's funny to me to be like, it's free. I know what you're think. Stop knowing me. Jesus

Mariann Sullivan: Okay.

Jasmin Singer: Let's move on

Mariann Sullivan: Can we move on? 'cause this is tedious. Um, I wanted to talk about something I heard on a podcast, um, because I, I'm listening to way too much, uh, a

Jasmin Singer: we know.

Mariann Sullivan: way too much about the real world these days.

Jasmin Singer: we know.

Mariann Sullivan: And it was an interview with Chris Murphy, the senator from democratic, Senator from from Connecticut. Who you know is very good on a lot of things and who I really like in a lot of ways.

And he was talking about immigration, and he was, he repeatedly said how ICE is treating immigrants like quote animals. And they are animalizing. I mean, he was over and over sometimes he used dehumanizing, which is kind of the same thing, but a little better. And I just find this expression infuriating.

They, they are actually, ICE is actually treating immigrants the way people with power have always treated people without power. It's not, I mean, they people, people with power like that, who you know, are in that ilk. They don't have to think of humans as animals in order to, uh, treat them horribly. They're perfectly capable of treating other humans horribly.

So it's not even true that they think of them as animals and, and. They, it is true that they actually are in some ways treating them like animals. But the implication here is that, is that it's okay to treat animals that way, and it's not okay to treat humans that way, and I think that it's an infuriating expression and he should stop.

The, the, the way they say it or the way he was saying, it makes it sound like that's the way animals are supposed to be treated. That's fine for animals and that's not the way people should be treated. The whole expression makes me crazy. I just wanted to let everybody know that. I know I should, I'm going to. There.

I committed to it.

Jasmin Singer: I, you have to send me proof of that after you do it.

Mariann Sullivan: Like, you don't believe me. I do not lie. Well, occasionally, I occasionally lie.

Jasmin Singer: you do. You tell

Mariann Sullivan: Everybody. Everybody, everybody occasionally lies.

Jasmin Singer: I think sometimes little white lies is, is the best way forward.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, no, it's absolutely like sometimes lies are appropriate. That's why it would be ridiculous to, um, say that lying should be like made criminal. The only kind of lies that should be made criminal and which can be made criminal under, under the US Constitution, though that's, that's kind of a moving target, isn't it?

Are um, are fraud, you know, where you're cheating somebody out of something where they're losing something. But just a lie, there's this kind of famous case, which I think goes as far as it can go, where this guy would dress up as a, as a veteran, like an, I guess as an officer, and tell all these stories of how he was a war hero or whatever, and he wasn't. He had never been in, in the military and there was a, a law that was passed called the stolen honor law, and it was made, it was made illegal to lie about your military service, and the courts held that it was unconstitutional. Because there was no evidence, I mean, in this particular prosecution, there was no evidence that he was cheating anybody. He wasn't getting money outta them or anything.

He was just lying. I mean, you can be a total asshole, which that guy clearly was a total asshole, but you can pretty much lie if as long as you're not actually hurting somebody in some substantive way. Well, that was a digression. Um, all right, let's get into, let, let's get into some articles because I feel like we're just bullshitting our way through this entire, um, episode.

Jasmin Singer: of our audience loves that and half hates it. So now that we've, now

Mariann Sullivan: Well, I'm sorry to half of you

Jasmin Singer: And to the

Mariann Sullivan: and you're welcome to the other half.

Jasmin Singer: All right. So let's talk about whey. No way. And we were kind of on the fence about whether to talk about

Mariann Sullivan: No whey is, that's a, that's a great, uh, I want a sticker that says, no whey!

Jasmin Singer: Okay, we'll get you one. I can make, I can make them now. I have a Cricut. Oh, I, okay. Funny little thing. I have a cricket,

Mariann Sullivan: digression, digression, non-substantive digression. I.

Jasmin Singer: it's like a, you know, a crafting cutter machine. And I also have an inkjet printer and I've been, I made you a magnet of you and Lulu, your dog. Uh, and now I can make stickers too.

But anyway, so I was texting with Marisa, well, Miller Wolfson of Vegucated fame. And I said something about how I had a Cricut and she said, so did she. And then she's like, we must be middle aged. It was funny. Okay, back to no whey, which is the sticker I'm gonna make you. so it's like once literal cheese sludge is apparently now a wellness darling because, uh, because of this whole protein fad that Americans are hooked on protein, like it's a miracle drug. And it's, you know, it's, it's largely due to, um, CrossFit culture and ozempic culture and keto culture. And so, uh, whey is apparently having a moment and, uh, and cheese makers are saying that they barely make money on cheese anymore, and that it's the leftover liquid. So this is, this is covered by the New York Times. It's absolutely revolting and disgusting. And it's just this whole thing about dairy. And I, was talking to you about this and I said, how much do you wanna bet there was money exchanged? By the way, this is a conspiracy theorist. I'm make, uh, theory, I'm making this up.

Uh, but how much do you wanna bet that this was a paid for article in some

Mariann Sullivan: way?

Yeah, I mean, it's the New York Times, which is a pretty reputable outfit, but.

Jasmin Singer: No,

Mariann Sullivan: know, who knows?

Jasmin Singer: York Times.

Mariann Sullivan: not, we, we don't have any inside information. It is, it's a huge, huge article. And, and I don't know why they, I mean, I guess it's of interest to some people. It does make it look disgusting and, and yeah, it's because of the protein craze.

Apparently there's protein in whey, you know, it's in all the protein powders and I guess it's considered good. So, uh, so yeah, I mean, loads of pictures of these like cute little cheese makers. It's just, oh, come on people, let's move on.

You know, it, it is like one of those things where all these industries call things byproducts, but actually it's like with, um, pet food, you know, like,

Jasmin Singer: mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: like everything, everything that brings income to the, the factory farmers or the the cheese makers or whatever. Everything that brings income is part of the profit, and whey has now become an enormous part of the profit, particularly of people who use dairy for cheese. And you know, cheese is like the big item. I think, you know, people don't drink as much milk, but, but there, and you know, I mentioned a few weeks ago that methane is another, and we'll talk more about that.

Um, in relevant to another article, methane is now a byproduct, uh, that there. But they're not byproducts. I just said it myself. They're all part of the income stream, and you cut out one of these income streams and you destroy the industry because they need all of it. Because, you know, they can't sell milk very much anymore.

Nobody drinks milk.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, exactly. It, it's.

Mariann Sullivan: if they do, as we showed at the, um, the lottery ticket, they're either drinking almond or oat.

Jasmin Singer: Or, I mean, too bad they're not drinking soy because that's the best one.

Mariann Sullivan: It is the best

Jasmin Singer: is about turning

Mariann Sullivan: I.

Jasmin Singer: last drop of animal exploitation into a revenue stream.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Into money. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Alright, well on that cheerful note.

Mariann Sullivan: I mean it's just that, just the whole tone is that typical, like New York Times, like folksy, Mr. Hyman, which is the guy at the dairy, is a gregarious, cheerful man with a large walrus mustache,. You know, move on people.

Jasmin Singer: Oh, that's funny. 'cause before we started recording, I was talking about my mustache and you said, are we gonna talk about mustaches? And I said, no. And here we are talking about mustaches.

Mariann Sullivan: All right. Our next article

Jasmin Singer: I'm a Jewish Italian person. We're a hairy bunch.

Mariann Sullivan: is a question that many of us are asking.

Jasmin Singer: It's about

Mariann Sullivan: Where did bird flu go? This is from Scientific American, and as we all know, we all thought we were gonna die and we're still here.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, for now.

Mariann Sullivan: Um, bird flu was nearly everywhere in the US in chickens, cows, pet cats, and even humans. Cases have gone down, but experts warned that it hasn't disappeared.

And this article is really, really not about the fact that bird flu is gone, it's about the fact that bird flu is not gone. And one reason is that it's seasonal. That's a really important thing that, uh, you like many flus. Um, but it's also because of the migrating patterns. You know, the major way that bird flu is spread or one of the major ways is migrating birds.

And so it spreads during migrating seasons. Nobody's migrating at the moment.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it evolved and.

Mariann Sullivan: It is not according to all of these scientists, um, particularly this Jennifer Nuzzo an epidemiologist at Brown. It, it, it's not gone and it's not just vanishing on its own. And she said that's just not how flu viruses work.

That's just not what happens. And uh, but you know, it is, it is very low. They're killing far fewer chickens. Um, According to this article, they reported just 3 million poultry birds killed by the virus, or culled to stop it in March and April. Oh, only 3 million, which is immeasurably smaller than the numbers that they were killing before that.

And, and so this story is not over. Uh, we have also stopped reporting on it 'cause there's not much to report, but it's not over.

Jasmin Singer: Reporting on it, but federal agencies are also pulling back, like the safety net is, is full of, of holes. And the, our complacency, our silence is it's liability. I mean, this is exactly when we need surveillance and transparency and biosecurity and not, not after the next spillover, but we see which direction this is going in.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, well that's the other, the other really scary part is, um, if you're not looking for it, you're probably not going to find it. I mean, if it was breaking out the way that it was, you know,

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: six months ago, they wouldn't have to be looking at it. But there's a lot, they've never looked, um, very, very deeply for its appearance in humans.

And there are only 70 confirmed cases in humans so far. But, um. But, uh, and they, you know, they don't think they're missing really a lot of them, but they don't think that number is accurate anyway. Um, as, as this other scientist said, no news in my world is not good news. We're just not collecting any data. And those are two very, very different things. It's a good quote.

Keep tuned 'cause it's probably gonna be back.

Jasmin Singer: Something that we've talked about throughout the years here and there are, are like labels and, and what to label ourselves and what to label foods. And I, I mean, there have been studies over the years. Uh, I remember there was a moment in time I hated this, where some, someone came up with the idea that it's better to say meat free instead of vegan.

I mean, there, there's

Mariann Sullivan: No, that one, that was ridiculous.

Jasmin Singer: was ridiculous. I have, I've been having a cute little dog on my lap this whole time. By the way, she got her DNA results back and she is chihuahua, as we know, rat Terrier and a little poodle. Isn't that cute? Okay.

Mariann Sullivan: I don't,

Jasmin Singer: Anyway,

Mariann Sullivan: What's a rat terrier?

Jasmin Singer: It's like a, like a

Mariann Sullivan: I've never heard of a rat terrier.

Jasmin Singer: Um, but, and she's just perfect. So we've talked about labels. June, by the way, my dog right here doesn't like any of those labels that I just said. She just wants to be herself with no labels. Uh, we've talked about the importance of labels. We've talked about the, sometimes people don't wanna have any. We've talked about that, but, um, but there is this wild thing that I think it was Veg Out just reported on, uh, the exact same dishes, right, like mushroom quesadillas, black bean tostadas, cauliflower tacos performed radically different just by adding a vegan label. So without the label, it sold like hot cakes, labels slapped on and the sales tanked by half or more.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, this is just anecdotal. It's not, it's not really a, um, an, an ex a controlled experiment. But it is interesting and it's the report of this woman, um, Maya Flores, talking about working at a, um, food truck in Portland, I think it was in Portland.

Jasmin Singer: I would imagine

Mariann Sullivan: Anyway, where, wherever it was, and a lot of their customers were local construction workers and, and she just, sometimes she remembered to put the vegan label up 'cause it was important to a lot of people on their vegan choices.

And sometimes she just forgot and. And, and then they ran out of some of the meat and, and, and, uh, and she suggested to somebody, a regular, uh, that he try the black bean and he said they were great. He ordered three and came back the next day asking for them specifically. And then when she, then she remembered to put the vegan sign up on the black beans.

And, he stopped ordering them and she asked him why? And he said, well, I need real food today.

Jasmin Singer: People are just.

Mariann Sullivan: And he had been eating them and ordering them, and then she, she just gave a lot of, um, examples of this. On unlabeled days, we'd move 50 to 60 black bean tostadas during lunch rush. With the vegan label? 25 to 30 max. The cauliflower tacos dropped even more dramatically from selling out to barely moving a dozen.

The problem she had was that. Was that some of her customers really wanted the vegan label and some, so, you know, people are in a difficult position. Uh, I just thought, like, it's anecdotal, it's not proof, but I just thought, you know, it rings really true. We, we know exactly what's going on here.

Jasmin Singer: yeah. That's uh, not surprising. It's just annoying.

Mariann Sullivan: Is she. And another time when somebody, she talked somebody into the mushroom because they were out of the, um, al pastor, he ordered one with the expression of someone agreeing to a root canal, but then he ate them and, and he ordered more, but he didn't go back to his crew to eat them. He ate them there and, and looked her in the eye and said, this never happened. It's like, men are just weird. I have to say. Would a woman care whether people knew she ate a vegan meal?

Jasmin Singer: of the whole masculinity

Mariann Sullivan: right. Not all men. Not all men. Not all men.

Jasmin Singer: Okay. But there's still this ridiculous notion that it's not masculine to.

Mariann Sullivan: yeah,

Jasmin Singer: It is so much

Mariann Sullivan: yeah.

Jasmin Singer: It's so much hotter. And that's coming from like a big old lesbian like me. Alright?

Mariann Sullivan: I'm sure they really care.

Jasmin Singer: Um,

Mariann Sullivan: I.

Jasmin Singer: It turns out, let's move on. It turns out that those, uh, feel good green quote unquote methane digesters at Iowa's seaboard triumph pork plant are anything but. This is not a surprise. Do you wanna talk about this?

Mariann Sullivan: This is a disgusting article and I'm not gonna be able to talk about the whole thing. I do highly recommend that you look, look it up. It's on Sentient, um, at an Iowa pork plant, piles of dead pigs and wafting sulfur dioxide. And they have a lot of pictures and they have a lot of, um, very specific reports.

And this has to do again with this methane thing and I talked before about how this is big in the dairy industry, but this is the pig industry and they have these anaerobic digesters, and they use these as proof of their environmental stewardship. This is at, in Sioux City, um, Iowa. And at The Seaboard Triumph Foods, uh, slaughterhouse.

And, um, so they have these anaerobic digesters and, and this is the way to, they harvest methane. Harvest methane, which they're producing. Um, you know, it like if they didn't, weren't doing what they were doing, they wouldn't be producing methane, which is a greenhouse gas, and then they take the manure from pork production.

So maybe it isn't a slaughterhouse. I don't, um. And, but here they have these lagoons connecting the manure, blood and guts of thousands of hogs. They kill like something like more than 20,000 a day. Um, the pictures are not to be believed. Not to be believed. It's so awful. And a, it's one of the issues.

I mean, one of the issues is that they're producing methane, which we really don't need. But you know, nobody thinks that seems to think that's a problem. But it, when you produce biomethane from, from like these deteriorating, uh, pigs and whatever, you're suppo, it also produces hydrogen sulfide and other contaminants.

And they're supposed to use a scrubber, but you know, it's really, they do not put money into this apparently. And, um. The hydrogen sulfide becomes, um, sulfur dioxide, which is poisonous, and they've been spewing it into the air. Also, people who work there have reported getting serious respiratory issues.

Um, there are stacks of dead pigs, multiple feet high inside and outside of the facility emitting these hazardous gases. This is the most disgusting story I have seen in a while, and I see a bunch of them. I won't tell you anymore. It's just too disturbing.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: mean, there have been complaints of labor violations and you know, there's all this financial stuff in here about how it's easier for them to pay the penalty than to lose the money.

That's how bad the penalties are. And uh, it's just a disgrace. I mean, I like Sioux City must be a nightmare.

Jasmin Singer: Corporate greenwashing at industrial scale.

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, it's awful. It's just like in the context of all of the awful things we talk about all the time, this is unbelievably awful. I'm sorry.

Jasmin Singer: the,

Mariann Sullivan: I'm sorry.

Jasmin Singer: to celebrate some serious wins for animals. Uh, I and for

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, no, from now on. Just good news. Just

Jasmin Singer: the NIH just made a historic move. No more exclusive funding for animal experiments. That's a huge step toward, um.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, they, they're no longer seeking re the T title. The article might be a little deceptive because in the article it says they will no longer seek research proposals that are ex for projects exclusively involving animals. Um, they, they're not making a any, as far as I know, any absolute commitment. But this is still huge, huge progress and is in accordance with the nihs, you know, many moves on this topic of late, which is just extraordinary.

Um, they have people there who actually think that animal experimentation is not the future. Alright, I said I would be fast.

Jasmin Singer: Over in Denmark, meanwhile, the government is backing plant-based meals in schools and investing millions in sustainable food systems.

Mariann Sullivan: this is really impressive, I have to say.

Jasmin Singer: Let's Denmark.

Mariann Sullivan: Um. Yeah. And because Denmark, you know, it's a very meaty country and they have a huge pig industry for a tiny country, like a huge pig industry. But they're really moving on the plant-based stuff and they wanna, um, promote and inspire increased and targeted plant-based funding and plant-based action at an EU level, which would be huge.

And some countries are, um, supportive. Switzerland is mentioned here while Spain, Italy, and France are not. They're renewing the legal debate over the use of meaty words on plant-based product labels. So a lot of stuff going on in Europe. There are obviously people on both sides in all of these countries and uh, but Denmark is really, you know, stepping into the future here.

Jasmin Singer: Meanwhile, in Oregon, a grassroots community stopped a massive chicken factory farm after five years of fierce organizing. So this is proof that local action works. This should give us all a bit of hope.

Mariann Sullivan: Absolutely.

Jasmin Singer: amazing.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. This was a recent report, the, it actually happened a couple months ago and I don't think we reported on it at the time. This is from Vegan FTA. Um, and I just really loved the way it started. This is a rural community and, um, it started when this woman who worked at, at a farm store learned of Foster Farms' plans for this facility from a land scout who came into her store. And she mentioned I guess that there might be some concerns, and he reportedly said, oh, what is that? One or two people? They Obviously don't have any money. We don't have to worry about them, and she got on it.

Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: Don't piss people off in rural Oregon.

Jasmin Singer: it. Uh, so plant-based meat, for those of you who, who have people in your life who only care about the health side of things. For now, plant-based meat just got another nod from CNN and this time it was for its positive impact on wellness, like lower cholesterol and a longer health span.

I wanna add that I had my blood work done this past week and my cholesterol is... should be on a billboard basically, like for like the New York, uh, New York lotto should borrow my cholesterol, uh, numbers and say, you could be winning by having this vegan lesbian's cholesterol numbers while you're buying your lottery ticket.

Mariann Sullivan: The thing I thought was really great about this article, which is by Sandy Lamont, um, is the title Eating This Ultra Processed Food may be Good for you and the Planet experts Say, and it just, I just feel, I mean, everything in here indicates that they finally might be moving on from this ridiculous, ultra processed category, which includes some foods that are good for you, some foods that are not good for you, and it's not a good way.

And you know, and it's basically been the industry talking about all these plant-based foods, which, you know, most plant-based foods are not ultra processed. They're right off the tree or the out of the ground. But in order to imitate meat products, they've, they've done some processing to them. It doesn't mean that they're bad for you, and it certainly doesn't mean that they're any worse for you than, um, meat-based foods.

This is a very long article, but they go into that a lot. So if this is a topic you get asked about a lot, I highly recommend reading it.

Jasmin Singer: these articles. For the first time in Our Hen House history, I'm going to say, and in sports news, a vegan

Mariann Sullivan: Now. We've had sports before.

Jasmin Singer: You're right. We have interviewed some excellent, uh, ethical athletes, but a vegan triathlete just became the German champion, crushing stereotypes along with the competition. This is a

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, this is from Plant-based News. Always love to hear about him. He, this guy is Max Hoffman and he competed in the middle distance race. Which doesn't sound like the middle to me. It's 1.2 miles of swimming, 56 miles of cycling, and 13.1 miles of running.

Jasmin Singer: funny.

Mariann Sullivan: That's a big middle.

Jasmin Singer: morning. Just kidding.

Mariann Sullivan: And he won. I always love to hear about a vegan winning.

Jasmin Singer: Me too. Well, a vegan winning just by being vegan. And I like this 'cause momentum is on our side and that's what these articles are showing.

The, the tides are shifting.

Mariann Sullivan: Also have one article though, which I don't think was on your list, but I'm just gonna mention it 'cause it's about James Cromwell. It just has a great quote in it. It, it, the whole article is about the making of Babe. It's not all about, um, it's mostly about James Cromwell. It's not all about veganism, but, uh, this was the title, I Went Vegan on the Second Day of Filming ,James Cromwell on Making Babe.

I broke for lunch before everybody else, and all the animals I had been working with were on the table, cut up, frickasied, roasted, and seared. I just thought it was a great, great quote

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, that's a really good

Mariann Sullivan: that might, might give people, might give people a moment of thought.

Jasmin Singer: Uh, and speaking of a moment of thought, I know that you are so excited by the interview that you recently did with John Sanbonmatsu, and he had a really great review come out on forbes.com.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, this is, this is a, is a book, um, the Omnivore's Deception and I highly recommend hearing the interview. But I was really excited to see this mainstream review. It's by Girl Scientist who apparently appears in Forbes, um, anonymously. What an what an amazing review. Um, a brilliantly argued dismantling of Michael Pollan and other supporters of the meat economy who lied to the public by claiming that we can have our meat and our morals too.

I mean, to see this in Forbes is just really, really fulfilling. I'll just take one more quote out of it. Professor Sanbonmatsu focuses on the myths and self-deceit that we use to maintain our violent domination over other animals, particularly the bullshit myth of the enlightened omnivore, popularized by Michael Pollen and his ilk, such as Temple Grandin and Barbara Kingsolver, who are vocal critics of ethical vegans.

A great review. I'm excited to see this book getting out there in the public. I highly, highly recommend it. And you know, she starts off by saying exactly what I. Um, what I said in my interview that, you know, this was one of the, or I guess she doesn't start off by saying this, but somewhere in here, that this is just one of the best books she's ever read about our relationship to animals.

Jasmin Singer: That's what you said, yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Says, this is, this is not only the best book I've read this year, but it's the best book I've ever read about the morality of ethical veganism and of animal rights, and I felt the same way. So yeah,

Jasmin Singer: were

Mariann Sullivan: highly recommend it.

Jasmin Singer: Are you Girl Scientist? Did you write the article?

Mariann Sullivan: No. No I'm not. 'cause that would be bad if I was pretending to be a scientist. 'Cause I would not know what I was talking about.

Jasmin Singer: little white lie, I suppose. Okay, well this, I

Mariann Sullivan: No.

Jasmin Singer: like ending on the positive notes like this. Uh, if, if you do too, then keep us going by leaving a comment on YouTube or a review on Apple Podcasts, you can also like this episode on YouTube. And that's it. I'm Jasmin Singer, that's Mariann Sullivan. I have June in my lap, and we'll talk to you next time.