The Hen Report: “YouTube Is Ruining My Personality” | Content Creation Challenges & Animal Rights News

Jasmin Singer: And I love the topics today that you chose. You do most of the curation, and I've noticed that more and more lately you've been choosing some good news stories. Has that been intentional?

Mariann Sullivan: I guess so. Yeah, probably. I didn't really think it out, but I think it's nice for people to hear some good news. I think it's really important for this movement to keep track of the victories, uh, or accomplishments. So yeah, I think it's intentional. You know, sometimes there's things... I have this like completist problem that I feel like we're supposed to talk about everything that happened in animal rights for the past week, which is A impossible, and B, stupid. Like, you know, why would we have to? It's much better to pick out a few things that are interesting and talk about them, which is all anybody is expected to do. But, you know, I'm occasionally neurotic.

I'm not gonna deny it. Um, like I feel like we're everybody's only news source, which is probably not true. Uh, and so I have, we have to say everything, uh, but I, I do like to lean on the good news when there is some, because you know, there isn't that much, let's face it. And also maybe because I do Rising Anxieties, um, you know, I do that as well and you know.

That they can kind of blend into each other. I don't want them to become too similar, but Rising Anxieties, I wouldn't say it's bad news, but it's news out of the industry, so it's always offensive.

Jasmin Singer: Sure. And hilarious

Mariann Sullivan: Sometimes

Jasmin Singer: So we are a podcast and we're on YouTube, so subscribe and like wherever you listen. It's funny that people are finding us on YouTube. I feel like the need to say I'm so happy that they are, but I also want them to know that we've only just started on

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, let me ask you this. I don't know whether you know the answer to this.

Jasmin Singer: Okay.

Mariann Sullivan: I've heard listening to YouTube, which I, I I'm doing more than is advisable for anyone's mental health.

Jasmin Singer: We're aware.

Mariann Sullivan: That you're like, you should bleep out profanities and certain other words, one of them being pedophile, which.

Jasmin Singer: You just said

Mariann Sullivan: I know I just said it.

See, this is the problem. I, because it, it ruins your, your algorithm. Um, that's why people do it. So I, I think we need to look into that because I noticed in the last Rising Anxieties, I did use a profanity. I'm not going to say which one, but it, it rhymes with, it rhymes with duck. Um,

Jasmin Singer: it.

Mariann Sullivan: You know, which I say occasionally as do most people, but I think we need to look into whether YouTube has some kind of prescription on that.

There might be other words as well. I mean, the, the P word that I just mentioned, which I guess we're not supposed to say. You know, it's coming up in the news all the time these days, so this is not in our news so much. We don't talk about that very much. But you know, what a world, what a world, what a world.

Jasmin Singer: I was watching another YouTube and someone said abortion and she said, I'm only gonna say that once.

Mariann Sullivan: It might be the same. The same thing.

Jasmin Singer: thing. Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. We, we need to learn more about the algorithm and stop saying words that rhyme with duck.

Jasmin Singer: Or abortion.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Um, alright, so, let me share some news if, if you don't mind, before we jump in.

Mariann Sullivan: Please do.

Jasmin Singer: 'Cause you do know, you

Mariann Sullivan: I know this news.

Jasmin Singer: Uh,

Mariann Sullivan: I'll, I'll just do my knitting here while you do.

Jasmin Singer: don't. You're not knitting.

Mariann Sullivan: Alright, nevermind.

Jasmin Singer: Okay. I was recently, I, I was, I, I got a really big part in a, in a play. It's kind of a roll of a lifetime type of part.

And I, I've known about getting it for a few weeks now. I wasn't allowed to talk about it. I was asked many months ago to audition for it, so I had months to prepare, which I did. And uh, so it's very surreal to say, but I will be playing the, the role of Judy Garland in a play about Judy Garland. And it is

Mariann Sullivan: It's not just a play. I mean, I guess it's not exactly a musical, but there's an enormous amount of music in it that you will be singing.

Jasmin Singer: It's a

Mariann Sullivan: Just like Judy Garland.

Jasmin Singer: It's called, uh, End of The Rainbow.

And it, it's about like, the end of her life. Um, it, it takes place over several days during which she was doing her final concert. Called Talk of the Town, and she was really struggling, uh, at this point.

She was a complicated person, very abused by Hollywood, uh, completely panic stricken whenever she had to perform. And so she really used a lot of drugs to kind of get her through all of that. And she

Mariann Sullivan: Are you doing that as well?

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I'm doing drugs right now.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Uh,

Mariann Sullivan: Me method acting.

Jasmin Singer: Sure, of course. Uh, anyway, I am. I am very nervous

Mariann Sullivan: No, it's, it's,

Jasmin Singer: exci.

Mariann Sullivan: it's, it's, it's, it's insane. It's insane.

Jasmin Singer: I am completely thrilled and excited. The show is in December. It is at Center Stage Theater in Rochester, and I will be, uh, pretty much impossible to be around until then.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. I can, I can attest to that.

Jasmin Singer: Probably a little bit after then as well. I've become a bit one note, uh, this morning when I was having my

Mariann Sullivan: I don't think one note is the, I mean, that's the wrong, the wrong term to use. 'cause you're gonna have to have a lot of notes.

Jasmin Singer: Many notes, some of which I can reach, some of which I cannot yet, but.

Mariann Sullivan: I know you're singing, you are a great singer and you have a great voice, but you haven't had a singing part in a very long time.

Jasmin Singer: No, very long decades, but I, I, that was the first thing I did when I was asked to audition was start voice lessons and, uh, and I've been working with a terrific vocal coach. And, and the funny thing about her is that she's really studying Judy, and she's like, okay, in this part, you, you, you don't say the word this way, like say this way and then breathe here.

But she's like, you're opening your mouth too much.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, you're lucky you found her.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I know. Believe me. Uh, so, and, and then, and then the other great giant thing that I will need to accomplish is hiding all of my tattoos. So I have, I have like

Mariann Sullivan: Remember when you hid your tattoos to be on the Dr. Oz show?

Jasmin Singer: And then I

Mariann Sullivan: And then you almost died.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I do remember that.

Mariann Sullivan: You had an allergic reaction to the whatever they, the makeup they used. Yeah, that was fun. That was a, that was a fun day.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I'm going more of the leotard root for this, like a

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, that's a good idea. Don't get a leotard that you're allergic to though.

Jasmin Singer: I will do my best to, I am actually a little nervous because she did wear a lot of fur and, uh, feathers. So we'll see how receptive the costume

Mariann Sullivan: Oh my God. Oh my God. I mean.

Jasmin Singer: I,

Mariann Sullivan: Uh,

Jasmin Singer: I, I think

Mariann Sullivan: A foot has to be put down here,

Jasmin Singer: I will put a foot down. I

Mariann Sullivan: Which brings to mind an article that I was going to get to later, but I'm gonna mention right now. And that's that article, which everyone should, it's, I'm just gonna briefly mention it, uh, which everyone should, should read. It's by Kenny Torella.

It's in Vox and it's, uh, this is the title of the article, The Biggest Animal Welfare Victory of the 21st Century Explained in One Chart: Global fur production has collapsed. Here's how it happened. I mean, I knew fur production was suffering, but according to Kenny, like it's, it's all but over. I mean, it's, unfortunately it's not over.

Like all but over means, like, you know, still millions of animals. But, uh, but unbelievable. Unbelievable and largely on, largely on the perception of fur shifting from a luxury good to like something that people think is horrible. We did that. I mean, I don't mean you and I, Jasmin. I mean, I mean this movement.

This movement did that.

Jasmin Singer: I remember in, uh, I think 2010. Yeah, you and I were.

Mariann Sullivan: So you can't be wearing fur in this show. Come on. Show them this article. Just show 'em the article. Show 'em the article.

Jasmin Singer: Fur is easy to faux.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: But I think you and I were in San Francisco. I'm trying to remember if it was 2007, I think maybe. Uh, and there was someone wearing like a fur something or other, and I, I was just like, about to say something to them

Mariann Sullivan: I don't remember this.

Jasmin Singer: guy, well, you weren't with me,

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, oh. I thought you, I thought you said I was. I'm sorry.

Jasmin Singer: San Francisco, but you weren't with me at this moment.

Mariann Sullivan: Okay.

Jasmin Singer: And, and this guy turns around to the person wearing fur before I had an opportunity and said. You shouldn't wear that around here. Um, or like, how dare you wear that around here, kind of thing. And like Yeah, exactly. I was like, okay, well my work here is not necessary. And that was like, I mean, nearly 20 years

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: So I'm not terribly surprised. Uh, but that's a

Mariann Sullivan: I mean, he does point out that a couple, you know, the, the pandemic, um, and mink being able to catch COVID helped and everything, but it's mostly the movement.

Jasmin Singer: I was listening to Ally Sheedy's uh, yeah, Ally Sheedy's memoir recently and I was listening to the audio version and she said something about fur, how she

Mariann Sullivan: Ally

Jasmin Singer: was wearing it.

Mariann Sullivan: Sheedy. That is a blast from, isn't she like an animal rights person?

Jasmin Singer: I lied. Ally Sheedy is a, is an animal rights person, but that was not whose memoir I was listening to. I was listening to Parker Posey's

Mariann Sullivan: Obviously it had a big, big impact on you. I.

Jasmin Singer: I, I always could. I have a thing about Parker Posey and Ally Sheedy, like my brain changes them. It also changes attic and basement. I always say the wrong one. It's weird. Anyway, um, Parker Posey, who is not Ally Sheedy

Mariann Sullivan: And is not in the attic.

Jasmin Singer: Nor the basement, I haven't been down there this morning, so I don't guess it's possible.

She said something about how she was wearing fur. It was like decades ago that she was, it was relevant to the story and she, and then she goes. Sorry. I was like,

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah,

Jasmin Singer: I, I'm glad that you're feeling that way.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah,

Jasmin Singer: Ally Sheedy wouldn't wear fur, I don't think. 'cause she's a big animal rights

Mariann Sullivan: yeah. She is. Or was I? She probably still is.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, one would imagine.

Mariann Sullivan: All right. Can I tell my story?

Jasmin Singer: Please

Mariann Sullivan: It'll be much shorter.

Jasmin Singer: And it's much more on the nose

Mariann Sullivan: I went to the hoedown. I haven't been to the Hoedown in, in in a really long time. The hoedown at Farm Sanctuary. Farm Sanctuary is about, well, maybe an hour and a half, two hours away. So I thought, no, I'm gonna drive down there.

Uh, it was a beautiful day. I saw some really good friends. I saw lots of lovely animals. I saw Pat Brown of Impossible Foods, though he isn't in charge of Impossible Foods anymore. He was a terrific speaker, I have to say he spoke a lot about this Rewilding project he's working on. I saw Gene, of course. I saw the garden. It, and most of all, I was just at Farm Sanctuary, which is one of my most special places.

When I first got involved, you know, the very beginning when you don't know what you were doing, it was in like in the mid nineties. I took a weekend and drove with my dogs, um, Calhoun and Finnegan, up to Farm Sanctuary. I remember arriving like it was late and they had just left a key out for me, and it still looks exactly the same.

It just brought back such memories and uh, those were the days when they didn't have a lot of rules about dogs. So mine ran around like lunatics. I mean, not amongst the animals. They, they weren't allowed up there, but they had the best time. Uh, I just, we went to the part where they have the memorials to, um, you know, people's animals who have died.

All of it was just so moving. I find that place so moving. I, I guess because I go way back with it and it was at the very beginning of my journey, uh, and, and it was great. It was great. The food was terrific. The food was so much better than the hoedown food used to be, but there was no drinking. There used to be quite a bit of it at the hoedown.

That was when I wa I didn't drink at all. Um, so I, I was the one who, um, went on the, um, veggie dumpling, um, trip to Watkins Glen, um, to the house of Hong to get the veggie dumplings for everybody who was getting the munchies because, you know, there were many inebriates being used. Now it's much more staid as the world is, uh, you know.

More careful. People have lawyers.

Jasmin Singer: Does she, you know, I have a, my, my beloved former kitty cat is, has a stone in that little, uh, rainbow bridge

Mariann Sullivan: I knew somebody did.

Jasmin Singer: Zosa.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. I, I, I'm sorry. I, I didn't, I mean, I looked because I knew somebody did that I knew and, um, I looked, there's a lot of stones there, so I didn't find her. I would've recognized her name though, because, you know, Zosa. It's not the co most common name.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's exciting that you went. I, I'm sorry that I wasn't able to join you, but I, I enjoyed living vicariously through many of your

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, such a beautiful day. It's so beautiful there, so beautiful. Um, but just one of the loveliest places.

Jasmin Singer: Also, it's good that, uh, I guess you were there before the air quality went to shit because the air

Mariann Sullivan: No, it was, it was it. I, you know, I find the air quality very pleasant, but apparently it's killing me because of the fires in Canada. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: It's like the whole country. I mean, it's not the whole country, but many parts of the country right now have terrible air quality. I think it's kind of worse up here. I was looking at like, uh, the Today

Mariann Sullivan: But how, I mean, how many trees, how many dead animals are we talking about to make the air that bad over the entire country? I don't even wanna think about it. It's just horrifying.

Jasmin Singer: Thanks for putting that thought in my head.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, wasn't it already? I don't know.

Jasmin Singer: Sure.

Mariann Sullivan: Smoke in the air? You tend to think of, well, where's the fire?

Jasmin Singer: True. Alright, so what have we got to talk about?

Mariann Sullivan: All right, there's one article I wanna bring mostly good news or, you know, good news. But there was one article I wanted to mention before we got to good news just because it, it, it's very reminiscent of a recent interview we did with Kudo from, um, Animal Recovery Mission about Fairlife. I, I really hope you caught that, that, um, interview.

It was terrific. And we actually did a follow up interview with him last week. Um, but Kenny Torella, who apparently is the theme of this week's podcast, also published an article on, on Vox, which you don't wanna miss if you're interested in this topic. The terrifying reality behind one of America's fastest growing dairy brands. The dark side of Fairlife and America's protein craze. And of course, Fairlife markets itself as not only humane, but also like higher in protein than other milk.

'Cause I don't know, they, they fool with it in some way. I was gonna use the duck word and saying they duck with it in some way, but I'm remembering to be good for YouTube. YouTube is ruining my personality.

A lot of the article does feature, there's, there's a variety of stuff in here about their, uh, about their history and about the whole protein myth.

Um, but also a lot about the recent investigations by Animal Recovery Mission and, you know, horrifying, horrifying, horrifying cruelty to the cows by their, um, their contract farmers. Um. And, uh, so I highly recommend listening to the episode, listening to the update and reading this article 'cause this is a topic we should all be knowing about. This is the, the fastest growing band brand of milk. I mean, 'cause milk doesn't really have brands, so they fi Coca-Cola, which owns it, figured out something that you can brand milk and start selling it everywhere under some stupid brand. And people will think it's better for them.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I, I know that I've mentioned this to you before, but I, you know, I've been getting some stupid comments from people when I posted this Vox article that, you know, when they're just like, thinking it's just like one bad apple kind of thing, or one, one bad jug of milk, as it were. And not, not necessarily connecting the dots to the big, the broader implications of dairy.

So I, I certainly hope that people are not all that stupid. What do you think?

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, so then let's move on to good news since we've

Mariann Sullivan: Good news. All right, we have a nun story. I'm not, I'm, I'm totally serious. We have a nun story. I love this story. I actually find it somewhat inspiring.

Jasmin Singer: Tell me.

Mariann Sullivan: Um, this is from Plant-based news. Vegan nun receives medal at first power lifting competition aged 72. Is that a headline or what?

Jasmin Singer: Can you just say it again?

Mariann Sullivan: V Vegan nun receives medal at first power lifting competition aged 72.

This is Sister Pat Farrell and, uh, this was at the USA Power Lifting's California Summer Open, and she won her weight class. And, uh, yeah, she, I, I find this inspiring. I, I might have mentioned before that, uh, my exercise routine is kind of non-existent, which you can't do at my age. And it mentions that she's gotten other people in her order.

She's a Dominican sister of San Rafael. Um, she's gotten other people to also start lifting and they are older than she is. So I am inspired and she only started four months ago and she didn't have, she's, she's, she's be deadlifting 160 pounds, which is more than she weighs. I love this woman. I love her. I bet she is really a lovely woman.

She looks really, she has just this prettiest face. Uh, I bet she's a lovely person.

Jasmin Singer: she was

Mariann Sullivan: She has one of those perfect Irish complexions that probably only a nun could have, because it's not, you know, she hasn't been lying on the beach for her whole life. So, uh, her skin is just pink and white. I'm, I'm, I'm perseverating.

Jasmin Singer: She was inspired by reading Diet for New America, um, which is also nice.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. She said her veganism has been a little spotty. It's been for 12 years, so, uh. Now it seems to be, um, to be more solidified. And, you know, she talked about she lives in a community. She lives in the, you know, with the convent. Um, not all nuns do, but she does. And of course it's probably hard. Uh, you don't always get to like, you know, fix exactly what you want to eat.

I love her.

Jasmin Singer: Our next story is also

Mariann Sullivan: my new hero.

Jasmin Singer: as reported by Plant Based News. Uh, I can't really pronounce this though because I, I don't, I, I'm terrible

Mariann Sullivan: Michelin starred Parisian restaurant, Arpege

Jasmin Singer: Name of the restaurant? Le Okay.

Mariann Sullivan: plant-based menu. This is the third Michelin starred restaurant I think that I know of. I mean, one of them of course is, um, is, uh, Madison. Madison Park in, in New York City where.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Were next door too.

Jasmin Singer: We were

Mariann Sullivan: We were actually at the, at the, at the restaurant and it says this is almost vegan, but just because they, they get honey from their own beehives that's really very close to, entirely vegan.

But, um, and I, I, you know, this is really pretty cool. It's the second one in Paris, I think, at least the second one in France. And, um, and. Madison Park kept its three stars after it went vegan, and I sure hope this guy does Alan Pasar and he apparently has been been, um, vegan for, or at least not a meat eater for many years.

So, you know, it must have been hard for him to be cooking it. And he just, I guess he just said, well. Here we go. Fla, you can go there and get flambed aubergine with melon confit, a mosaic of tomatoes and a carrot onion, e shallot and and shallot cabbage medley. I guess it.

Jasmin Singer: Paint my house aubergine.

Mariann Sullivan: All you have to do is get get yourself to France and then pay a 420 Euros per person.

Jasmin Singer: Wow. Well, I mean also like how, you know, hats off to him for doing this in France because I think that like there's a very strong meat eating culture there and you know, he's going up against that, so that's very exciting.

Mariann Sullivan: There's loads of great vegan food in, in, in,

Jasmin Singer: I

Mariann Sullivan: in Paris.

Jasmin Singer: I don't feel like I remember having great food in,

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, I do.

Jasmin Singer: I really did love going there.

Mariann Sullivan: I remember the food being really good.

Jasmin Singer: just don't remember food. Like it's not the way my brain

works. It's too busy confusing Ally Sheedy and Parker Posey and the attics in the basement for me to focus on food. Uh, but anyway. Alright, let's move on because the next story spotlights an activist who we adore, who has been on our podcast before, which is

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, well, not, she's been on the Animal Law Podcast. Actually. This is Maddie Krasno, and if you haven't caught that episode, I highly recommend it. She was on with her lawyer, Kaitlyn Foley, from ALDF, um, about this actual case that she has now won. Uh, and it had to do with this insane thing at the University of Wisconsin Madison that, um, they censored her comments on social media posts.

They would do a post about how great their animal program was, and she would comment on it and they would remove them. And she said, that's... I mean, the First Amendment only applies to the government, of course. But we're talking about a state university and she said, you can't do that. And the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals just said, yeah, you can't do that.

Jasmin Singer: Hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: Nice, nice.

Jasmin Singer: She's like one of my favorite activists.

Mariann Sullivan: She's a powerhouse. I.

Jasmin Singer: In current animal rights sphere. That's really cool. Alright, so let's move on because not sure, are we, are we like officially past the good news section?

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Now we have this like thing to talk about, and these are not good news, none of them,

Jasmin Singer: No.

Mariann Sullivan: but they, they are just three separate articles that I came across that I think all sort of fit together. I don't even know what to say about them, but I feel like you will.

Jasmin Singer: Oh, well that's terrifying. Well, the first one, the focus is on a zoo in Denmark, uh, which

Mariann Sullivan: Probably have heard of this huge news. I mean, this made news all over the world.

Jasmin Singer: This is called the Aalborg, which I might be pronouncing wrong, Zoo, which recently made headlines by publicly asking People to donate their pets to be killed and fed to zoo predators, that is real, that that actually is real.

Mariann Sullivan: And they did say your pets who are, you know, elderly or you know about to become homeless. Um. I think it's really interesting. This caused like a huge furor and they said they would humanely

Jasmin Singer: reactions.

Mariann Sullivan: euthanize them. I guess they wouldn't use drugs because they're gonna feed them. Don't you think it's interesting like that most of the people who are complaining about this would have no problem with this zoo buying chicken that's been treated horrifically and that was chicken was one of the animal. I mean, it's only certain animals. Chickens was was one of them, if you have a pet chicken. They would have no problem with them buying chicken at the supermarket and they would have no problem themselves buying chicken at the supermarket.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. And so far the zoo has received 230 donations, including 137 rabbits, 53 chickens, 18 Guinea pigs, and 22 horses. Uh, wow. So a lot of the, the outrage online included people, you know, calling all of this disturbing and sick as they were eating their chicken sandwich.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it?

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. And, and some people were defending the initiative and, uh, saying it avoids unnecessary waste.

Wow. It's so good that they're so virtuous.

Mariann Sullivan: Right. I know, God forbid we should waste, waste, animals' bodies, and it, nobody ever, there's nobody, well, I shouldn't say that, it's not like I've read every comment. I'm sure some people did say this, like, isn't this like a, like maybe indicate that maybe we shouldn't have zoos? Maybe we shouldn't have these, um, carnivores sitting around with nothing else to do so that we have to like come up with animals to feed them? That they never seem to go there. They just like apparently should buy chickens from factory farms and, and I, like I say, I haven't read everything and I'm sure other people are saying that as well. All right.

That was one of them. Then there was this, the baboon one, and this is, you know, this is the kind of thing that has happened before. Also in Denmark, though this one's in Germany. Do you wanna talk about this article?

Jasmin Singer: The Nuremberg Zoo in Germany. And th this is, uh, I, this story is kind of nuts to be honest. So the, uh, Nuremberg Tear Garden Euthanized 12, or killed, you know, 12 Guinea baboons who were all deemed very healthy, citing chronic overcrowding. And the troop had grown to four 40 individuals, which was far beyond the enclosures capacity for 25.

So the efforts to control the numbers through contraception, I guess, has failed.

Mariann Sullivan: They did try. They've tried. They tried. Um, they, they tried contraception. They have been unable to control the population of this troop of baboons.

Jasmin Singer: Right, and so the officials said that killing was the only option. I'm saying killing and not culling. I think that culling is the strangest euphemism for killing. It's like saying

Mariann Sullivan: It really is.

Jasmin Singer: of slaughtering or like.

Mariann Sullivan: I know it kind of reminds me though, in a different way, uh, when they use Plant for the slaughterhouse.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, totally. I know that's funny. So, um, six of the baboons were dismembered after being killed. Um, this is very disturbing. Their

Mariann Sullivan: It's really disturbing.

Jasmin Singer: bodies were removed from, from

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: and then they were fed to the predators, including lions and tigers and wolves and, and Martins

Mariann Sullivan: Well they also, they also apparently tried to find other homes and they weren't able to, so they tried. So

Jasmin Singer: And

Mariann Sullivan: go ahead.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I was gonna say that skeletons are headed to museum collections.

Mariann Sullivan: God forbid that they should go to waste.

Jasmin Singer: Oh, you know what this reminds me of just real quick. So I participate in actively in the buy nothing group in my area. And, uh, I, so someone recommended the Buy Nothing book, which was written by the people who founded the Buy Nothing Movement.

I think the Buy Nothing Movement is phenomenal. And it's basically like you're sharing with your community what you, what you need, and what you have to offer. And, uh, I started listening to the audio book of it and they started talking about using every part of the animal that you are, um, like, like chickens that you have in your backyard, for example.

And I like quickly, like fast forwarded past it, and then I was like, you know what? Fuck oh. Duck this, duck this

I

Mariann Sullivan: I think that there's no problem with our still using those words on the podcast. I don't wanna change the way we talk. All, all right, go, go, go ahead. Yeah,

Jasmin Singer: case, I just, I couldn't listen anymore. I'm

Mariann Sullivan: yeah, yeah. No, that, that, that is one of the many nonsensical things that people say to excuse themselves for what we do to animals, as long as we don't waste them.

Like, if, if you killed me tomorrow and, and used my body like to fertilize the yard, would that make it okay because you didn't waste my body? It's not your, like it's my body. Anyway.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: I, I mean, they tried, but again, nothing that, nothing in this article suggests that, well, maybe this means that we shouldn't have zoos.

If you can't control the population and if you can't find other homes for them, maybe you shouldn't be keeping them captive then. That, isn't that the answer? Isn't that like the only answer? But no, the, the answer they come up with is, I know. Let's have somebody eat them. It's always the answer. Like, if animals are a problem, let's have somebody eat them.

Jasmin Singer: I'm ready

Mariann Sullivan: Which brings us to our third article.

Jasmin Singer: I just wanna say I'm ready for this Alfred Hitchcock, um, movie that I've been living in for nearly 46 years to end. 'cause I am tired of living in a world where people behave like this and eat other individuals.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, that kind of is The Birds. It really is.

Jasmin Singer: I know. Oh, that's a great movie.

We should rewatch that during our staycay.

Mariann Sullivan: It is a great movie.

Jasmin Singer: Do you wanna rewatch that with me?

Mariann Sullivan: Sure.

I have seen it not too long ago, but I can always watch it again, even though, I mean, it's not scary in the way that like, you know, movies about ghosts or something are scary. It's more scary about like, well, people are horrible and birds, birds are gonna come get 'em.

Jasmin Singer: I freaking hope so.

Mariann Sullivan: I'm all for it.

Jasmin Singer: Alright, move on. Move on.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, there's a third article in this trio of articles. This is the one that started me on this. This is from the Washington Post. I am able to see it. I, I, I have trouble getting past their paywall, but I guess I haven't used the.

Jasmin Singer: The case for eating wild horses out west.

Mariann Sullivan: In the, this is by, by, what's her name? Tamar Haspell. In the American West, horses are wreaking havoc.

If you're going to eat an animal, an overpopulated wild one is the way to go. And she styles herself as being in pursuit of a more constructive conversation on divisive food policy issues. She likes to think of herself very well, I think. And so this is her answer. She kind of, she talks about them being overpopulated and she does mention that there are people who suggest that, uh, that it's the cows that are overpopulated, she kind of glides over that, you know, well there's this controversy and I can't resolve that sort of thing. So, um, uh, which seems to be like a pretty relevant issue. And then she talks about how, uh, you know, we could use contraception, which we've tried, but it's really hard to reach some of the horses that are really far out in the wilderness.

Well. Well then couldn't we reach the ones that we can reach? She does talk about how, you know, that it's really, it's, it's a terrible situation right now. There are 60,000 horses in BLM holding facilities. They cost about a hundred million dollars per year to maintain. And then she says, I'm not here to a adjudicate these issues, talking about the contraception.

You kind of are.

Jasmin Singer: Right.

Mariann Sullivan: You're suggesting that people should eat them. That seems like an adjudication. Seems like a death penalty. And, you know, people, she suggests that people should just get over, which of course is completely irrational, the fact that, um, they will eat all these other perfectly lovely animals, um, cows and pigs and whatever, and won't eat horses, but she suggested they should go in the direction of eating all of them instead of like the, the direction that we usually think.

Well, if you don't eat horses, why would you eat a cow?

Jasmin Singer: Is it truly more ecological or just a reframing of justifying animal deaths for human consumption? I mean, it is weird because it seems like it's, it is kind of what we always say, like, why would you eat one and not the other? And she's like, why won't you eat one and not the other?!

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Eat 'em all. Eat 'em all.

Jasmin Singer: Heres my husband, I'm gonna eat him for lunch.

Like, what? It's, it's weird. I'm, I'm ready

Mariann Sullivan: She blames Black Beauty and John Wayne movies. Blames? The interesting, um,

Jasmin Singer: What is happening? I don't even understand

Mariann Sullivan: inter at the end is interesting. Let me, um, I'm not sure exactly what she meant by this, but I'm just gonna read the last paragraph here. So I'm not expecting instant consensus here. But if you're thinking about ways to reduce the impact of your diet and you're only objection here is visceral, maybe it's time to reconsider if that seems like a big ask, I got some vegans who would like a word.

Jasmin Singer: You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of Molly, uh,

Mariann Sullivan: Totally. No, that I, I was having the same thought. I was having the same thought, except I, I, I don't think she's faking it the way Molly is.

She's not

Jasmin Singer: being ironic and it's not performance art, like...

Mariann Sullivan: yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Wow. Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: All right.

Jasmin Singer: That feels like a terrible note to end on, so

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, sorry.

Jasmin Singer: No, no. Uh, actually, real quick, before we end, end, we're be on a truncated schedule next week as we are going to be busy watching The Birds. Uh,

Mariann Sullivan: Over and over and over.

Jasmin Singer: We're going on a staycay or staying on staying home on a staycay. I am so excited about like, just sitting on my couch and,

Mariann Sullivan: Well, don't just sit on your couch, I mean.

Jasmin Singer: No, no. I have lots of day trips planned that I'm excited about.

Mariann Sullivan: The other thing, I mean, staycays, which I've tried to do and occasionally I've done successfully, I think they require a lot of planning and a lot of discipline to get yourself out of the house and actually do things. 'Cause otherwise you just end up, you know, doing the bullshit chores around the house.

Jasmin Singer: I know I am a little bit nervous about that, but, uh, you know, that's one of the reasons I like vacays.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, you get a lot of chores done. But don't, don't do that. Don't do that.

Jasmin Singer: I honestly don't wanna do a chore. I just wanna like unplug and

Mariann Sullivan: Well, even that, you don't wanna just unplug for two weeks. You, you wanna do stuff that you'll have memories and that you'll enjoy.

Jasmin Singer: put No, I have things in the calendar. I

Mariann Sullivan: I know you have a million things in the calendar, like we are talking about you here, so I don't know why I'm worried.

Jasmin Singer: Hopefully the air quality cooperates

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, it's fine. It's nice out. All right. So you know, a few years from now, we'll be dead. A few years from now we'll be dead anyway.

Jasmin Singer: Moore, Moore has asthma and so she wears the mask outside.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. No, she is vulnerable. I forgot that. I've been insensitive as always.

Jasmin Singer: We will figure it out.

Mariann Sullivan: Okay.

Jasmin Singer: We will figure it out.

Mariann Sullivan: But I have something else I just wanna add. I don't want people to forget that this is not the last episode, um, this week. And we have like an unbelievably amazing interview on Friday coming out with Sherri Franklin, the founder and CEO of Muttsville San Francisco, that you are gonna love this interview and talk about good news.

It's a good news interview.

Jasmin Singer: It's a good news interview and it was one of those things where I was like, oh, right, we're, we're recording. Like this is for a podcast. Like she, I just felt like we were friends and she's just...

Mariann Sullivan: delightful.

Jasmin Singer: work. It's about senior animal rescue, but it's like she's vegan.

There's a vegan ethos set. Those are things that you don't hear in the same sentence nearly enough. So maybe it'll make you feel a little bit better about like some of the dodo heads that we were talking about today. make sure you tune in. Thank you so much for watching, for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.