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by Jasmin and Mariann October 7, 2025
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Reading Between Industry Lines: What Gives Big Meat the Cold Sweats | Rising Anxieties

by Jasmin and Mariann October 7, 2025
by Jasmin and Mariann
https://media.blubrry.com/ourhenhouse/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/media.blubrry.com/ohhsignature/files.ourhenhouse.org/podcastepisode856.mp3

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In this revealing episode of Rising Anxieties, Mariann Sullivan peels back the paper-thin veneer of PR to expose what’s really making Big Meat break into a sweat. From industry giants simultaneously fighting and adopting plant-based alternatives to the hilariously transparent attempts to convince consumers that dairy cows don’t actually care about their calves (spoiler alert: they absolutely do), we’re treated to a masterclass in cognitive dissonance that would make George Orwell slow-clap in appreciation. When farmers earnestly declare “bye boys” to the steers they’re shipping to slaughter while claiming deep love for these animals, you can almost hear the industry’s collective anxiety rising to a fever pitch.

This episode explores:

  • How corporate animal welfare campaigns are making meaningful progress despite industry pushback and denial
  • Why meat giant JBS is launching plant-based brands in Europe while abandoning similar efforts in the US
  • How weight-loss drugs like Ozempic represent an existential threat to meat consumption patterns
  • The increasingly desperate industry narratives attempting to justify separating dairy calves from their mothers
  • The revealing language farmers use when discussing animals destined for slaughter, exposing the disconnect between claimed care and actual practice

 

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Mariann Sullivan: Welcome to Rising Anxieties where we think about what's making the industry nervous.

And I talk about a lot about what's making me nervous and, and you know, a few other things, if it's interesting.

Show More Transcript

I'm gonna start with some, some. Uh, triumphant talk from the industry. This is by Jack Hubbard. He's a PR guy for the industry, uh, from Burman, uh, and, you know, a big, a big ag industry, PR firm.

And, and, uh, he talks like a PR guy, right? Right. He talks like everything is great and you know, a lot of it is great for the industry. I'm not gonna deny it. Activists, that's us, Activists Struggling With Corporate Campaigns. This is for Meating Place over a decade ago, he starts out animal rights activists found success in bullying, restaurants, supermarkets, and food service companies into making pledges to only buy cage-free eggs before moving on to pork and poultry pledge campaigns.

Fast forward to now and the tide seems to have shifted. And, you know, the rest of this article is kind of a, a, you know, just a, a story of how bad, bad a job all of these corporate campaigns are doing. And, uh, you know, how we're really not making any, or we, or they or whoever it is, isn't making a lot of progress.

And, and why are animal activists struggling? Several reasons come to mind. Uh, first, some corporate leaders have wised up to the activist game. Here he's referring to the fact that it's never enough. You know, just because they make one welfare improvement doesn't mean that activists will be satisfied.

Yeah, exactly. Like, like the people you're trying to impress, folks, isn't the activist, you don't care about the activists. You know that. You're trying to impress the public. And so if the public is happy with what, with what you're doing, uh, that's, that's all you have to pull off. So why would you even worry about that?

Unacceptable environmental costs are another thing. This is, this is the thing they're always bringing out about the, you know, the welfare campaigns for quote unquote broiler chickens. And, uh, you know, the, because the fact is, is that, uh, if you, if you treat them better and you don't, you don't use these incredibly fast growing breeds, uh, which you know, is horrible for their welfare, then you, you end up having to raise more birds per year.

Uh, to me this is evidence that the whole fucking thing doesn't work. So give up. That is not how they see it. They see it that, you know, for them the planet is so important. Uh, I guess that's how they see it. And, and, uh, he also points out that, that, that just because... and he, he gives a lot of statistics. I won't go through all of that about how, what a tiny number of, um, of, of animals have been affected.

And he says the corporate campaign game isn't won yet, And it may never be. I think that's true. I mean, they'll never be any good. The treatment of animals will always be horrible and there will always be some people who care. Um, and then he makes fun of us a little bit. Like while you, talking to his readers, might enjoy a SA Saturday afternoon with family and friends, vegan activists spend their free time protesting and calling corporate headquarters.

Well, I, you know, I wish I spent all my free time doing that. There is an implication here that I don't have any family or friends I think, but maybe I'm over reading, reading too much into this. Dealing with activists can be a never ending war. I like that one. I like that one. Interestingly Meating Place, this industry site, uh, published a response from Matthew Dominguez who's with, um, he, he runs the US um, division of Compassion In World Farming, which is a big corporate campaign, uh, um organization. That's one of the, that that's kind of, I think the main, their main, um, activist work. Uh, and, and he points out that not only, uh, have we been working out on it, but our efforts have been affirmed at the ballot box, upheld in the courts, embraced in boardrooms. It's unfortunate that some continue to to defend the cruelest practices, resisting what is clearly inevitable, and then he gets into some different numbers.

45% of eggs sold in the US come from cage-free systems. That has been a huge campaign, um, of course. And, you know, some major companies like McDonald's and have, and others have made and actually have been starting to deliver on these public commitments to drive this transition. So, if that's the kind of thing that, you know, I know some of you out there think that cage-free, uh, and other corporate campaigns like that can be a neg or, you know, know people in the movement have always thought this. Or, you know, they, they, they can be destructive to what we wanna accomplish because they set us back because it makes people think that that things have been fixed.

And I, I, I'm not closed to that point of view, but I'm not convinced by it. Uh, and 'cause I, I never have seen anybody who seems to worry about, about it at all. It's not like, it's not like when the cage three commitments come in, they stop worrying. The vast majority of people don't seem to worry at all.

And you know, for some other reasons too. I'm not convinced that it sets us back. It's not my personal, uh, way forward. I'm not sure what the big theory of change is, how we... 'cause my ultimate goal is always the vegan world. Don't laugh. It's my ultimate goal. And, and like I like to see how, how anything that I support would be a step in the direction toward a vegan world.

And I'm not sure I see that with the corporate campaign. So, but I might be wrong. I mean, I have seen research that indicated that, that, uh, not only do they not set us back, but people are more likely to eat plant-based when they hear about, um, these improvements in animal Welfare. I think it says something like that.

Anyway, I'm digressing as usual. Um, he, he, Matthew also talks about, um, pork production according to the USDA, over 40% of pork now comes from supply chains that have reduced the use of or eliminated gestation stall stalls completely. That's hardly monumental, but it's, I mean, it's an unbelievable accomplishment.

Well, in, in this short amount, relatively short amount of time we have been doing this and the industry that we are up against, so, so. I mean, progress has been made, progress is gonna continue to be made. Um, broiler chickens, it is clear that broiler chickens have been a harder nut to crack. And, uh, but according to Matthew, the better chicken commitment is what they call it, which I think is a good name, better chicken commitment.

They're not just saying this, that this is, uh, uh, best or great. They're just saying it's better than the other one. Is already generating tangible results and talks about some, some... these are more nascent steps on the way to change. Purdue Farms worked with Compassion In World Farming on a large scale commercial trial demonstrating with higher welfare breeds can be raised successfully at scale, um, blah, blah, you know, and things like that.

Like, like toward a direction of where, uh, chickens suffer quite the same amount, but we'll still suffer an enormous amount, uh, which is what corporate campaigns are about. And uh, he also talks about the fact that, um, this does seem to be important to consumers and it's not necessarily incompatible with sustainability if you actually try to work towards that.

And, um, concludes with the true story of animal welfare's role in root food production is not about struggle, it is about fundamental transformation, collaboration, and the undeniable trend toward more humane practices. Like I said, it, it's not a good enough world for me by even the furthest stretch of the imagination. No matter what they do, it's still going to cause enormous, completely and totally unnecessary suffering to animals.

But I'm not sure that it sets us back. I am really not sure of that. So, uh, I just, I think it's really interesting how much the industry hates it, how much they're willing to prevaricate about it and actually how much they are working towards it. Um. You know, not, not a lot, but certainly not the completely, uh, giving up on it the way that, um, the first article pointed out.

Alright, speaking of the other way forward, and also by industry giants. Um, Are industry giants also embracing another way forward. This is from Plant-based News. Our friends at Plant-based News, Brazilian meat juggernaut, JBS launches new plant-based collective for EU brands. Uh, and this has always been an interesting, uh, quandary.

Why do the meat giants and there is no big, there's literally no bigger meat giant than JBS, the Brazilian company. Um, why, why do they have these like branches that, that kind of are creating either alt... You know, plant-based proteins or sometimes cell-based proteins. Is it 'cause they're worried? Is it because they wanna, they wanna bring them up so that they can uh, they can keep them down.

Um, that, that if they control both sides of the market, they can regulate that. Like they wanna make money, let's face it, they wanna make money, but we're, I'm still not sure exactly how they think this is going to make them more money. Alright. This has, this is something that the, the JBS has started in, in, uh, Europe, and it's called the Vegetarian Butcher Collective.

And it started by them buying the brand Vivera, and then they bought the brand The Vegetarian Butcher. And, and for understandable reasons, I think 'cause it's a great name. I think it's a great name. Uh, they decided to call the whole collective the VE Vegetarian Butcher Collective. I don't know whether they're planning on buying more companies to, um, to put in this and, and, and, uh.

So they're, they're starting to market, uh, you know, and, and they're planning on being a new leader in European plant-based food and to represent, um, these product brands. And I said, perhaps others. Vivera has, Vivera has apparently been around for a while, and, and it, it actually relatively recently launched the world's first plant-based steak.

Um, and, you know, and they have a bunch of different products and as reported in Food Navigator, the launch of The Vegetarian Butcher Collective may indicate that JBS is doubling down on plant-based and alternative proteins. This is in Europe. They trial in the us they, but they have abandoned their US, US plant-based meat division in 2022.

Like many in the world, they have given up on us. Uh. What can I say? Well, let's hope they come back. Well, I guess we hope they come back. Do we hope they, we don't have to buy stuff from them. They're JBS. Uh, but, you know, I'd rather people bought their plant-based products than their meat products, but, but I'm not sure what the, what the end game is here.

Um, they also announced this plan to expand beef exports to China. In case you thought that they were, they had found, uh, found Jesus or something. A move that experts and environmentalists warned could single handedly turn the Amazon from a carbon sink into a significant source of emissions via deforestation.

Something we're well on the way toward with Jbss, um, in the forefront. Um, already and earlier this year, Greenpeace predicted that JBS is currently unlikely to achieve its pledge to eradicate illegal Amazon deforestation. Yeah, no shit. Um, and according to World Animal Protection, JBS currently confines in slaughters more than 5 billion chickens.

53 million pigs, 27 million cows in 8 million lands every year. I hate them. I just hate them. I just hate them. I just hate them. All right. This is kind of an interesting story. I don't know, like this, this is thrown them for a loop. This is from Drovers an industry site, a cattle site, mainly beef's, ozempic size challenge.

Are producers ready to take it on? And the subtitle is GLP one Drugs suppress Appetite and have been shown to reduce calorie intake by up to 800 calories per person per day. GLP one drugs will impact consumer demands and expectations. This is by Aiden Connolly and I I, I'm sure they're not the only food company that is thinking.

Oh my God, people are gonna eat less food. What are we, we have, like food has been engineered by all these food companies to, to encourage people to eat more and more and more food, most of which is not good for you. And now, uh. Apparently they're gonna stop. It hasn't been a bit of a tizzy. Um, they're shown to reduce calorie intake by 800 cal, up to 800 calories per person per day.

And, um, apparently soon they're gonna be coming up with pills instead of injectables. And, um, and also in 2026. Uh, the patent for semaglutide is going to expire in Brazil, China, and India. Um, and the global market for GLP one drugs already valued at 47 billion, is expected to increase tenfold by 2032. That is very soon.

Producers, packers, backgrounders and even cow calf producers might not be paying attention yet, but they should. Yeah. Like everybody who produces food, especially food that people are not going to eat as much of should, you know, start being worried, um. Are there's particularly a reduced desire to eat fatty and processed foods.

So that's gonna affect, uh, beef growers for sure. Um. And they've all been, apparently Walmart was doing the study back in October 23 and they, they have linked decreased food sales to growing use of ozempic. I mean, obviously people are eating less food. I'm surprised they're not more worried about this.

Maybe they are. Um. So they're talking about junk food companies, um, because people are going to be able to reduce their cravings. But what about beef? Uh, they, they talk about leaner cuts, high protein snacks. 'Cause protein is a big thing for people on GLP one and apparently, uh, they can't, um, tolerate, uh, fatty foods.

What does this mean for genetic selection? Sex separate feeding, cattle management, nutrition choices. Oh, honey, forget it. What does it mean for meat? Hopefully this will be just a piece of the death knell, uh, and death. I use the word, I use the term death knell advisedly.

Um, they're talking about feed additives, animal health. Go, just go out of business, give up this. You have food that's bad for people. Like once people don't, can better control their cravings, why would they want to eat your dead animals? Alright, hostility mine.

I'm not sure what to do about how hostile I am towards these people because I've read a few, um, a few articles that are a, to me absolutely chilling. Absolutely chilling, and they're all, these aren't the industry articles. These are more personal articles and, uh, I just... like reading what people in the industry talk the way they talk about animals. It freaks me out. It really does. Like, I think that they believe it. I really do think, well, some of 'em, you know, not the PR guys and stuff, but some of them, I think they truly believe it.

They, they really think they're good people. They talk all in all about, you know, how, how they're the salt of the earth and I don't wanna hate them and I don't know how not to. I'm sure I do bad things myself, that I'm, you know, I know I do some bad things that I'm aware of, but I'm sure there are other things that I just don't see it.

I'm sure that there's probably loads of them, but this is so blatant. Anyway, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shut up. Um, alright. The first one is more of an industry person. This is by Michelle Miller, the Farm Babe. I know I make fun of her every time I say it, but it's so funny. Um, why are calves taken away from dairy cows?

So we're writing about this? Definitely some rising anxieties going on here, how much people are, are writing about how farmers actually really care for animals. And how they're becoming aware that people out there are now aware the calves are taken away from dairy cows. Something nobody used to know.

Nobody used to know that you had to have a calf in order to give milk if you were a cow. Um, maybe you've seen those activists created videos showing a calf... activists created videos. I mean, they are filming something. They didn't create the reality, they're just filming it... showing a calf asking, where's my mom with melancholy music in the background?

Or maybe you've seen photos of dairy cows and simply wondered why you never see them with their calves. How, why could it be? It's a reasonable thing to wonder. Yeah. It is. Before the idea of what you know, and I think what she's missing because it's so obvious to her, she's missing the fact that people just don't realize the cows have to have calves in order to give milk, give milk, give milk. Before the idea of some tragedy fills your mind, let's talk about what happens. Why farmers separate cows from calves, and ultimately how this practice actually keeps cows and calves healthy. Spoiler alert, this isn't nearly as dramatic as some PETA type videos make it out to be.

Alright, so one of the things they, they talk about, one of the things she talks about is how cows produce colostrum, which is absolutely necessary for ca right after the calf is born, absolutely necessary for the newborn calf to drink the colostrum because of the way it works in their immune system. Um, and so she thinks it's good that they're separated because you never know whether that cow has good colostrum or how much or everything.

So the farmer is much better at figuring that out than an old cow! That was not a quota. I'm paraphrasing. Alright. This is, this is, this makes, it makes me insane. It really does. Cows are also big animals who aren't always the best mothers. It's really easy to project human emotions onto animals. Oh, well, maybe you should try doing occasionally, honey. But cows do not parent the same way humans do.

Cows. Cattle are herd animals. They love their friends and being with other cows, in fact, being with their calf away from the herd can make them very anxious and stressed. Yeah, cows don't like their calves. All right. Many dairy cows truly don't care much about their calves... oh my God. She's actually writing this... and don't miss them when they're not there.

Some cows will outright reject their calves. Dairy cows generally don't have a strong maternal instinct, which can sometimes lead to injuries for the calf. It's a wonder cows have survived through throughout the ages, isn't it? If dairy cows and their calves were all housed together, there would be problems with fully grown cows, our big animals, all it takes is one wrong step or one little push that a calf could be seriously injured. Cows need time to rejoin their herd and go back to their job of eating, sleeping, and making milk. It's their job. Cows also need close monitoring and a specialized diet. Calves also require close monitoring, but obviously not by a cow, by by some bozo, to make sure they're staying healthy.

Think of it like send, sending your kid to daycare. It's a structured safe space and is designed for a calves specific stage of life. Let's be clear. Separating cows and calves is not a cold calculated move that makes things harder for cows to live a good life. Farmers truly care about their animals.

I'm not even gonna make comments 'cause how could I add to that? All right. Oh my god.

Bye boys. That's the article name of this article from Hordes Dairyman. Time to Serve Another Purpose is by Courtney Henderson. She is a dairy farmer, first of all. Um, she points out that her farm, dairy, farm raises between 30 and 50 feeder stayers to sell in the fall.

This is, this is, um, instead of raising calves for veal, they will raise them to their, to when they're, um, full grown, um, or reasonably full... I don't know whether they're full grown... for beef. She doesn't think this is a good idea, but she's not in charge of the farm. Um, so she has to do it. And they sell their feeder steers to receive extra money in the fall.

She has a love-hate relationship with these steers. To tell you the truth. It sounds mostly like hate, but she likes to think it's love. Yes, I raised them from a bottle, but they are big creatures. What a shocker. They're cows! Um, and she talks about having been kicked, stepped on, knocked over, blah, blah, blah.

Um, they weigh anywhere from 900 to a thousand pounds and, um, and this week they will all, they will all load the trailers and head off to Kansas where they will be fed out to slaughter and she could not be more thrilled. That is clearly, that is clear. Once they cross the scales of the stockyard, they're no longer my problem.

I have been counting down the days since March to say I am excited for them to leave is an understatement. I know part of me will be sad. I, I'm, I'm trying to... having a hard time finding that part of you because of the fact that we raised them from little calves to these big clumsy creatures, but the overall ridiculousness, they have caused is enough to make me load them with no problem! As we say goodbye to these giant, overgrown puppy dogs... is that what you do to puppy dogs too? I don't know... I will thank them for what they're about to bring us. Oh, that's, that's good of you. And silently celebrate their departure. Not that silent. They have kept me on my toes and brought me more of a headache the last year or two than was necessary, so bye boys.

Yeah, farmers love their animals.

All right. This final story, um, just a few more quotes about how, how do we vo, how do we think of these people? Like how do you think of them? I know they think they're great. They think they're the salt of the earth. I keep using that expression, but it just seems appropriate. Where did that expression come from?

Salt in the earth is not a good thing. Anyway, I digress. Um, Tragic Turn, trailer of show pigs bursts into flames on I 80. This is, you know, a horrible story about a terrible accident and, um, it does sound like a freak accident. They were coming home from a, um, a, a, they, they raise pigs. They were coming home from a show, apparently his daughter or the guy's daughter.

Um. Or their, it's a, a man and his wife, and they have a 17-year-old daughter, Hollen. They were at a stock show showing her prized pigs, and, um, somehow they passed a car that was on fire and somehow something flew into their, into their trailer and set it on fire. The trailer where the pigs were. Very long article going through a lot of drama.

A lot of people, a lot of other people from the show showed up and helped them. Um, when he opened the door to the trailer, ran back to the trailer, he saw that their banner winning Poland China guilt was already dead, but the other three pigs were hanging onto life. Um, the Poland guilt was on the back of the trailer and had somehow broken out of her pen trying to get away.

I mean, how, like, it's horrible and it is a horrible story. Um. And, and, uh, this is, I'm just gonna grab a few quotes outta it. It's so long. It's taking me a second. Um, when they returned home, all right, so they got the three out, uh, alive when they returned home a veterinarian confirmed the gilts who survived the trailer fire needed to be euthanized as their injuries were too severe.

Didn't go into any like further, like too severe for what? Too severe for them to be happy, too severe for them to wanna live, too severe for them to be show pig, I don't know, whatever. They needed to be euthanized. Um, and it was apparently hard on Holland, the, the daughter who to walk through an empty pig bar the next day.

Uh. Although it's not an uncommon thing. Well, yeah, the pig barn is often empty after the show season is over, I'm sure, because they sell the pigs to slaughter. Um, although it's not an uncommon thing as every show season comes to an end, this was not the ending she expected. She had high hopes of taking the Poland gilt to the American Royal in a few weeks.

Well, the, the Poland guilt probably had high hopes of being alive. Um, and the hardest part for the farmer was calling the breeders who leased them the guilts and telling them what happened. So apparently this is a whole rental market. I don't understand how it works. And, um, he called some guy who was associated with the, with the breeders, who told him, do not worry about that.

These breeders will only care that you, Holland and Amy are fine. Pigs can be replaced. And that's it. That's it. That says it all, doesn't it? How do you, how do you deal with the way, the way this makes you feel? Uh, I'm damned if I know. Some days it just gets to me.

And that's it for this week's rising anxieties.

⇧ Close Transcript

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