The Hen Report: “Both Vegan and Funny” | Comedy and Animal Advocacy with Myq Kaplan

Myq Kaplan: I am always happy to be here. I love you guys. Thank you so much for having me.

Jasmin Singer: I didn't finish reading your bio yet. I'm gonna finish now, but I always feel a little weird when I am reading it and haven't taken them and the, you know, the person's just sort of sitting there listening to their life story. I, I find that one of the most awkward things, like I was recently MCing an event and I was sitting right there and they're reading my bio, and I sort of wanted to die, but I don't really know why, because I did do all of those.

Mariann Sullivan: It's kind of normal.

Myq Kaplan: Well, I, I under, I think you're both right. I think it is a standard thing that happens. And also, uh, in the grandest scheme of things, it is weird to have people talk about you while you are there. Like, talking about you behind your back? Of course! But in front of your face? About you? Like sometimes as a comedian, you know, when I'm on a show with other comedians, the host might say, how would you like me to introduce you?

And then I can let them know. Uh, you can say, you know, I've got this new special coming out, or I've been on this late night show, or it doesn't matter just say something that is true and kind. You know, if it's, if it's a friend, you know, speak from your heart. Sometimes as a joke, I'll say, speak from your heart, and have your heart deliver these credits exactly. But

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Wow, that's a little intimidating.

Myq Kaplan: But, uh, I, I have fun. I, I, I, like, I go with the person's comfort level as well. You know, if it's a comedian, somebody who's used to performing and thinking on their feet, it's one thing, but sometimes it will be somebody who's, you know, not used to talking in public, like a scared college student, who just wants to say my name and introduce me, or.

At an event that's not specifically comedy. Sometimes I will show up and they'll be like, we've got, and they've printed out every page of my website and, you know, read like the about page, which is, you know, a much longer paragraph than I would necessarily, uh, ask for myself. You could, like, you could just say, "is a comedian, here he is."

But I, I understand why people want to, you know, uh, bulk it up.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I mean, I'm torn because I kind of wanna just say like, I wanna introduce you in a way you've never been introduced. But I also wanna say that you've been on The Tonight Show, Conan, The Late Show with David Letterman, Late Night with Seth Meyers. You have your own half hour Comedy Central presents special.

You have a one hour special on Amazon. Small, Dork, and Handsome. You've been a finalist on Last Comic Standing. You've appeared on America's Got Talent, yada, yada, yada. Your album Vegan Mind Meld was one of iTunes top. comedy albums of the year, and most importantly, your new one Hour standup special premieres on YouTube on November 19th at 8:00 PM and the album will be released on December 12th. And I wanna say that stuff, but I also wanna say something that you've never, ever been introduced with. So what would that be?

Myq Kaplan: Uh, you, you could say this comedian has also played virtual ping pong with me. You know, that's never, never been uttered. I think also the way that you just said it was, you know, that nested kind of meta way. Like, I'd love to say all this. I think you made it your own, you know, in a way that I, that you know, sort of resonates with me because I enjoy a meta self-referential parentheses within parentheses kind of vibe.

And you know, I, you and I, we've been on each other's shows before. We are friends. We have talked about this, you know, we like, uh, we obviously have, there are many distinctions and differences between us, but there are so many similarities.

It feels, you know, familial and kin like, and, uh...

Jasmin Singer: both like neurotic Jews who eat plants

Myq Kaplan: That's what I'm saying. I was trying to say it without saying it, but, uh, yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Just make that your bio from now on if you want.

Mariann Sullivan: You guys want me to leave the room or something?

Myq Kaplan: No, you're, you're,

Jasmin Singer: You're, you're an honorary neurotic Jew who eats plants.

Myq Kaplan: Yes.

Jasmin Singer: Uh, well, of.

Mariann Sullivan: I also think, I was thinking about it as you guys were gabbing away, which you both tend to do and, uh, that you know, the introduction, it may feel like it's, uh, like a little self-aggrandizing to have, you know, everybody, but at the same time, it's sort of modest because it implies that not everybody else out... not everybody out there knows who I am. I mean, I should explain who I am, so I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about.

Myq Kaplan: I, I agree with that 100%. Uh, because you know, the way that when I'm a fan of somebody, then I, I know as much about them as possible and the, but that, that is of course not who the introduction is for until you're at a level of, you know, I don't know, Tom Cruise like fame where they've. To give a, an introduction for that.

As you may or may not know, this person is the most famous human being alive, so, but yeah...

Mariann Sullivan: I don't want Tom Cruise on the podcast.

Myq Kaplan: No, no.

Jasmin Singer: Totally, I don't think he, he checks that box anymore.

I think he's kind of over.

Eehh, I said it!

Mariann Sullivan: He is pretty old.

Myq Kaplan: Who, who do you think is the current? I mean, I feel like it's less of a monoculture, but, well, that's the thing, is the most famous person in the world like it used to be that everyone watched, you know, the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or everyone in the United States. I have a friend who is a, uh, a practicing Buddhist and went to Nepal on a trip some years ago and told me that as he was leaving Nepal, one of his, you know, hosts there, uh, said, oh, it's so unfortunate that you're leaving right now 'cause next week is this major festival. Like it's this annual, you know, beautiful experience that everyone in the country gets into.

And they said, I think it might be, you know, I don't know what it would be most akin to, maybe it would be sort of like your American festival that you call Christmas. And the idea that Christmas is not even a worldwide, you know, every culture famous, even Christmas is not what it is everywhere to us here. So how can everyone? So you know, Mariann, you are 100% correct, please, Jasmin, read every page of my website.

Jasmin Singer: I will. Yep. You got it. I mean, and also.

Mariann Sullivan: Example that you're looking for, I think it might be Taylor Swift.

Myq Kaplan: Ooh. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: We were gonna have her on today, but it it conflicted with you being on, so we're like,

Mariann Sullivan: We heard she wasn't vegan.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. So we're like,

Myq Kaplan: Uh, yes. I wonder,

Jasmin Singer: She, she has a lot of things, but she does not have a comedy special coming out on YouTube.

Myq Kaplan: You are right. I wonder, who do you think the most famous vegan in the world is? Is it Weird Al?

Jasmin Singer: Oh no. People don't realize, people don't realize he's vegan.

Myq Kaplan: Don't realize, but he is so not the most famous for being vegan. Definitely, he's not that, but he might be the most,

Mariann Sullivan: I mean, he doesn't hide that he's vegan.

Myq Kaplan: No,

Mariann Sullivan: a huge, big deal about it.

Myq Kaplan: He talks about it when, yeah,

Mariann Sullivan: But he's only super famous among people who understand that he's famous.

Myq Kaplan: And that is, I think that's true for everyone as well.

Jasmin Singer: Did you say the most famous vegan, or did you say the most famous like Hollywood person?

Myq Kaplan: No, no. The most famous vegan, I wonder who the most famous.

Jasmin Singer: I think it's probably, uh, Joaquin.

Myq Kaplan: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mariann Sullivan: Paul McCartney? Is

Jasmin Singer: No

Mariann Sullivan: Is he, is he totally vegan?

Jasmin Singer: I, I don't know.

Myq Kaplan: He's, he's also not totally famous anymore. I remember I heard a story of him like going into a party with Kanye or something and they were like, who's this? And, or like that they put out a song together, McCartney and Kanye, and somebody was like, who's this guy? He seems good, you know?

Mariann Sullivan: I guess that's totally a, I just made a total Boomer reference, but

Myq Kaplan: I mean, well, that's the thing is there is no monoculture, be it, you know, geographically worldwide or chronologically, because, you know, today we have access to all of the, you know, all of the information that is on the internet, which includes like, you know, a hundred years ago, nobody knew the most famous person across the world because you weren't there and you needed to be there.

Like, have you guys ever heard of Grock the clown?

Jasmin Singer: No.

Mariann Sullivan: Uh,

Myq Kaplan: Uh, that is the name of the once, the highest paid performer in Europe, who I think died last century. And I always, I always like to think about that when, when thinking about fame and how fleeting it can be. Uh, because he was clearly like a lot of people knew him and now only the people that I tell about him, uh, like check out his Wikipedia, everyone.

He doesn't have a special coming out next week either. But, uh, but yeah, it's, I think, you know, the, the fact is that fame is not the most important thing, of course, uh, the most important thing is being vegan.

Mariann Sullivan: Absolutely.

Jasmin Singer: You are so funny because, uh, I know that you do interviews all the time and I kept drumming it in. Like, just remember, we need to talk about like animals and veganism. I just love how seriously you're taking my directive.

Myq Kaplan: Oh.

Jasmin Singer: I think No, I, I'm, I'm here for it. So I actually, let's start with just a simple little question.

Myq Kaplan: Hmm.

Jasmin Singer: What is your theory on why otherwise good people feel comfortable eating animals?

Myq Kaplan: Yeah. Uh, I think that part of it is the way that we, you know, all humans compartmentalize and tell stories about things that are, you know, like from, from only reading the headline, which doesn't tell you the whole truth about the story because the headline is click baity and, uh, and only there to get you to, you know, keep getting ad revenue to that website and you don't get to actually learn the facts of what's going on.

I think that like the equivalent of that in the world of people who, uh, are involved in eating animals, like the fact that the name of the food is not the name of the animal for most of the foods, like people don't say like, may I have one cow please.

You know, they call it, you know, beef, they, uh, you know, obviously deer, venison, sheep, mutton, uh, like, uh, for the birds, it's an interesting thing because obviously chicken and turkey are the same, but it's treated differently. It's treated do you know about mass nouns versus count nouns? Like a count noun is something that you can count, like, you know, one chair, uh, you know, two bananas, but a mass noun and is something like water, like how much water as opposed to how many bananas or sand even.

You could count grains of sand, but as a general, as a generality, sand is a mass noun, and so chickens are count nouns. Chickens like, but chicken, as you know, what people call it for the food is like just, oh, it's just a mass of chicken.

It's just a bunch of stuff, you know? And so I have a friend who, who, when she asks people about what they eat, she'll say like, do you eat chickens? And I feel like that that is like a thing that can jostle, you know, the cognitive experience with.

Jasmin Singer: And, and you, when you said cow, like, uh, can I have a cow? Like that would be a massive meal. So it would more be like, can I have a very small portion of a cow smooshed together with other pieces of other cows?

Mariann Sullivan: That we do call by, except it, I mean, it totally fits. I, I really like this, the, this, I like that they have nouns, they have names too. Mass nouns and count counting nouns.

Myq Kaplan: Mass nouns and count nouns.

Mariann Sullivan: Um, that's a good explanation because there is one mammal. I mean, we do say lamb, the cutest animal that we eat, though they're all cute in their own way. Um, and we still just, people are just perfectly comfortable saying, oh yeah, I'll have the lamb.

Myq Kaplan: Yeah, I think it's because people have different categories in their brain for it that, you know, if you're looking at a, you know, a really wonderful video of like a cow being friends with a pig, uh, you're not, that's different than when people think about pork or bacon because it, at the store, it comes in a box.

It has different words on it. There's so much, I mean. The main thing I think is separation, is, you know, isolation as opposed to, uh, connection and communion and inclusivity. Like the idea that we are all, you know, ultimately in this together, like, you know, in a, in a Buddhist paradigm, you know, the idea like the, the, we are all one of it.

Like, uh. There's, there's a, a Buddhist teacher I like named Joan Tollefson, I dunno if she's Buddhist specifically, but she writes about the idea that, you know, we're all, every single, every being, every sentient being, uh, is basically like a wave in the ocean of the universe, the ocean of reality, of consciousness, of everything.

A wave is part of the ocean and it, but it comes out and we're like, oh, that's an individual wave, it seems like. And then it recedes back into it. And all of the waves are connected because all of the ocean is connected. Like Thic Nat Han talks about it as inter being, you know, a, a plant can't exist without sunlight, without water, without dirt.

We can't exist without our, our family, you know, giving birth to us. We can't exist without, you know, uh, shelter and food and all of the things. And Joan Tolleson talks about how every single one of us, every human that's ever been, every animal, every sentient being that's ever been, is a wave in this ocean.

And the main difference, even Hitler is a wave and Buddha is a wave. But the difference between Hitler and Buddha, one re relevant difference is that Buddha is aware that he is a wave in the ocean. And Hitler and people further along that end of the spectrum, uh, don't. Aren't aware, they're not awake to that, they are not connected to that.

They think that that's me over here. And others, you know, the, the them versus us mentality. And for people who do eat meat, uh, which, you know, I certainly ate meat as a child and because that's just what, what I, it was what was done. You know, you, you come into the world and then people are like, this is what we do.

We, you know, you go to this place, you, uh, these are our cultural customs. These are what we do in our family. And for many people growing up eating meat, because it's the norm, it's a lot. There's like inertia. It's a lot harder to, here's, I wonder if we've ever talked about this there in the, I learned this in the, the Peter Singer book, the Life You Can Save About mainly.

Jasmin Singer: I love that book.

Myq Kaplan: E effective altruism. And so maybe you remember this part where he talks about how, uh, organ donation, in some countries, is opt-in and in other countries is opt out. Like in, in the states it's opt-in. You most people are not assumed to be organ donors. You have to check, yes, make me an organ donor. And that is something that when that's the option, fewer people do it.

And I think they compared maybe Germany and Austria are two very similar European societies where one of them's opt in and one of them's opt out. And in each place, whatever the default is. Is 70% of people do it and whatever not the default is 30% of people do it. So where people where, and it's the exact same type of society, but people are just like, oh yeah, I'll do what the people are doing, whether it's, yeah.

Jasmin Singer: That, that makes me think of the plant-based by default movement and like why that would be so useful just.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, where they put the,

the plant-based product in the cafeteria at the front, and you have

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: to the bottom and reach to get the, it's totally available,

Myq Kaplan: Absolutely.

Mariann Sullivan: to

Jasmin Singer: and I was, I was recently talking with someone who works in the environmental movement and he was, he's vegan and he was saying that like, the events that they put together, which are these massive events, are now, uh, like vegan by default. But you would have to choose the meat. And he is like, no one does.

And that to me, in envi, in environmentalism specifically, is such a colossal shift from what there used to be. I, I wanna tell you this little story and get both of your thoughts on it, uh, because it's so relevant to what we're talking about. Um, so I'm in this play right now and I was at rehearsal and I'm the only vegan there.

And, uh, the, the stage manager is constantly eating fast food. Uh, I, she's just running from her job to rehearsal, so she has her Burger King or whatever, and so she's eating it. And I, the other day she said, do you guys mind if I, if I eat. I think like maybe someone had said something to her, you know, you, you should ask for permission.

And I just like, didn't, I didn't reply because I, I don't care if you eat, but I, I don't want that to be what you're eating in front of me. But I, that wasn't the question, so I just didn't reply. I, I did say something to an actor who was next to me and, uh, he was like, yeah, I'm really bothered too when people eat fast food around me, which I found weird because he's a meat eater.

But, uh, he, but then a few minutes later I was talking about this new PBS documentary that came out about pigeons, which is excellent by the way. I totally recommend it. And how great pigeons are and how they were brought here by the Dutch as food animals and they escaped. And so they're sort of iconic to me.

And the stage manager was like eating her burger and she says, who would ever think to eat a pigeon?

Myq Kaplan: Ah.

Jasmin Singer: I real like, I get that what I'm saying now is like everyone here in this, you know, virtual room and everyone listening or watching, this is our life. Like we live in like a land of cognitive dissonance we're constantly confronting.

Every now and then, something feels like more annoying to me than something else. And I said, well, I don't think people thought of eating a pigeon until someone ate a pigeon. You know, she takes her bite of the cow. And I I don't really know, like why that moment really struck me.

It's still, I'm still bothered by it. So can you, I'm sure you, as a neurotic New York Jew, you've done your share of therapy. So can you psychoanalyze me and pretend to be the therapist in this situation? Like what is, what is happening exactly.

Myq Kaplan: Well, I, I know enough about therapy having experienced it, having studied psychology, to know that me telling you what I think about it is not exactly what therapy is, but I will do it. Uh, 'cause if I were a therapist, yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: But it is what a podcast is.

Myq Kaplan: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If I were a therapist, I would, uh, center it back on you, but since I'm a podcast guest, I'll take the wheel.

Jasmin Singer: Okay.

Myq Kaplan: I mean, I think it's a, that's a beautiful, like, you know, tragic example of exactly what we're talking about. You're, you know, you're right on because it's, it seems like hypocrisy, it seems like a lack of understanding. The cognitive dissonance is so strong. Like who would ever? Do you guys know, uh, the comedian Barry Crimmins, who, uh, died a few years back and was like an incredible, uh, human and comedian.

And he had a joke that was like, uh, Bobcat Goldthwait made a documentary about him. He was also like very, he was molested as a child, I believe, and was very instrumental in helping Congress, learn about, uh, you know, chat rooms and AOL on in the nineties and getting child pornography, you know, out of, uh, out of the system.

And, and he also became vegetarian, at least at some point. I don't know if he was vegan, but he had a joke about becoming vegetarian when he said I was holding, yeah, I found, I looked at my hand holding, uh, a chicken, you know, drumstick. And I was like, oh, it's, it's a piece, it's a bone with meat on it. And he's like, and I'm holding it with in my hand, which is a bone with meat on it.

And, you know, he saw, he saw the sameness in that moment. He saw, he was like, oh, how can, like that we are, we're all part of this thing together. And then he's like, I never ate meat again, and the person, you know, you're stage manager who had the thought, how could anyone eat blank meat while chomp, chomp, chomp eating this meat?

Like it is that, you know, the default is so strong. The power of just like, well, yeah, anything that happened before I got here, once I arrived, those are the rules. Just how it is. And then when anyone suggests something different, even if there's something different, is like the most powerful, logical argument, you know, the most compassionate, uh, case that can be made to be like, you know, there, there could be, you could say to her like.

Of course, uh, like you don't eat pigeons because you're not of a culture that eats them. You eat cows. So, but you're of a culture that eats them. So you understand where you're coming from, but you don't understand where other people from other times or places are coming from. And, you know, the light bulb could go off in her head and be like, oh, so I should start eating pigeons?

And you're like, no, no, no. The other way. The other way. Yeah

Jasmin Singer: no, I think that is where she would wind up. Okay. I, same, same rehearsal. I, I, in my, in the play have to be sort of. For lack of a better way of putting it, force fed pills

Myq Kaplan: Hmm.

Jasmin Singer: I'm sort of like drunk in the scene and this guy puts pills in my hand and sort of puts my hand up to my mouth and like makes me swallow them. And I, even though there's so much physicality in this show, there's like, I'm physically being carried multiple times, like where there's just a lot like fighting physically. Like there's a lot of physicality. And yet this part I said I really need to make sure we're, we're really, uh, choreographed for this because there's something about being force fed that is very, very disturbing to me, like on a very visceral level.

And I was chatting with someone about it and I said, you know, I think of the foie gras ducks and I go into like the production of the foie gras ducks and, um, it. Also have personal, like trauma around this, this kind of thing, which I won't get into now 'cause we're trying to be funny, but let's just say it's a very, very bad feeling for me, and, and I'm sure for the ducks.

And so the, uh, so I was talking to the one actor about the foie gras and he's like, yeah, wow, I didn't know. And then the other actor next to him goes, but it's so delicious. I'll see myself out. You know, and just kind of fussy, old gay guy gets up and like leaves, leaves. And I'm thinking like on what planet do you think that's funny right now?

And I guess I am. I wanna get your thoughts on that because you are genuinely funny and you, and you really deep, difficult things and somehow, I'm going to say, twist them into a way that they're funny. Because that's your cleverness and the way you think. So can you just talk a little bit about humor and veganism? Because especially as an antidote to that horrible moment I experienced at rehearsal, I just... make it make sense.

Myq Kaplan: Yeah. Uh, so I, I wonder if I've ever shared this with you. Uh, one of my, first of all, thank you for the kind words. You're very generous and thoughtful. Uh, always.

Do you know, uh, from the book, The Prophet by Khalil Gibran, uh, there's my favorite quote from it is, uh, "the deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."

And it doesn't mean that every bit of sorrow does, you know, correspond to, uh, some requisite amount of joy. But it can. You know, like if, like the fact that like when we lose, you know, a loved one, if we know someone who we love and they die, like the grief is sort of, you know, uh, equivalent to the amount of love that we felt like, like grief is the price we pay for love, it's been said.

And so I feel like humor and finding joy in difficult topics in, you know, in painful topics, like obviously, uh, that situation that that's not... what that person was doing to you, was I, I mean, I think actually is coming from a place of discomfort. Like, because I think that most reasonable people, like when they think about how animals are treated, they know that it is harmful. It is horrible. It is shameful. It is not the way a utopian society ought be. It is not the way, the best way to live and treat other living beings.

You know, people, like you said, love their dogs. Love their cats. Love their pets, love, you know, love to visit a farm and pet a cow and see a cow being friends with a dog or, you know, a, a duck riding on the back of a turtle.

And like we, we all like, you know, game recognized game, life recognized life. So one element of this is, I think, I dunno if you guys have read the book, The Gift of Fear, which talks about. Like that humans are the pretty much the only, uh, animals, the only living creatures that will like downplay our fear response in some situations, uh, sometimes via humor.

Like, whereas if, you know, if a gazelle is, you know, is either chilling or senses a predator and is running. It's like there's no like I wonder if I should worry about a thing for next week. You know, I've got this, uh, grass that I need to eat. Maybe I can eat more of it now. Like it's just, it's in the moment.

And if it's, if there's fear, then it's doing it. But humans, there's like one example in this book, uh, of like a package gets delivered to an office and somebody's like, well, it doesn't have a label. And somebody's like, Ooh, I'm gonna go over there while you open it 'cause I don't wanna be there when the bomb goes off.

And it is a bomb that was delivered by the Unabomber. And the person, they were, they were using humor because their fear detector was going off, but they didn't know how to, like, they didn't know that's what, what was happening. But their, their fear was protecting them, but it was coming out as laughter, as this, you know, this awkward joke that saved their life because they did go to the other side of the building. And so that, that person who said, but it's delicious, like because, you know, humans are, we are, you know.

We, it's diff, it's I think, impossible to live life without causing any harm to any beings. We can only, we can only do the best that we can to minimize it, to minimize the suffering, to increase the joy, to increase the connection and awareness. And so I do think that, like what he's doing there is like an uncomfortable joke that represents how he is, uh, insecure and self-conscious and unc and like, because you are, you know, you're not there being like, Hey everyone, you have to be vegan.

Like, you know, when somebody asks me, do you mind if I eat this in front of you? And I'm like, well, that's not where you're eating it that that matters. You know, it's not, uh, like, oh yeah, don't, if you wanna, you don't have to hide from me. I mean, but if you're, if you're concerned about what I truly think and feel and believe, like I'm not, I'm not gonna force any, I'm not gonna un force feed anyone, you know?

'cause that would probably be, uh, equivalently, like, I'm not gonna take food out of your hand, out of your mouth. But with respect to the way that I do comedy, I do think that, you know that quote, the deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. If we start from somewhere that is painful, that is, that there is sorrow, that there is suffering like sometimes it's kind of a gallows humor thing. Like Mark Marin has a special that's called, This Has to Be Funny, I think, because, you know, he's gone through what, whatever traumas we've gone through, like they, we've gone through them like. Let's say, let's say a simple one, you're just out, you wanna have a picnic and it starts to rain and it.

You're like, oh no, it ruins my picnic. You can either be like mad at the rain, you can be upset, you can, you know, dig in and, and cry and rain down your own face extra, you know? But you could also just be like, well, I wanted to have a nice time and now it's raining. Now, now we have, we have to go inside.

So I think that that is the power of humor that is the power of comedy to acknowledge what is happening. Like there's another a, a, a Buddhist teacher, I like, uh, Suzuki Roshi, Sri Suzuki, his given name I think. And he said, uh, he said to his students, he says, you are all perfect exactly as you are, and you can use some improvement and. I think that that's perfect for this because like wherever we are, you know, right now we're in a world where there is suffering, where animals are treated the way that they are.

But it is, there are some improvements that are happening, you know, with the plant-based by default movement with these environmental, uh, you know, folks recognizing like, oh yeah, if we do it this way, that will be better for the environment. It'll be better for, you know, animals, of course. It'll be potentially better for humans who are maybe eating healthier as well, and being more aware, spreading that awareness.

And so I think that what humor can do is, like George Saunders has said that, I think humor is when you are delivered the truth quicker than you expected. And so there.

Jasmin Singer: that.

Myq Kaplan: is a truth to that. There is suffering. Like there's this old Toad the Wet Sprocket song that I think was called like, happy Buddha or Laughing Buddha, or Sad Buddha or something.

And, and I think the, the opening lyrics or something is like, life is suffering. Ha ha. He, he, you know, and like. The fact that there is suffering is, you know, kind of in a way, a cosmic joke of itself. And then the, the Buddhists call it the first arrow. You know, maybe the idea that like pain is mandatory, suffering is optional in certain circumstances.

Like for our own experiences, we get shot with an arrow... we can't help getting shot with the first metaphorical arrow. You know, that we're, we're in this life where we're going to age, we're going to, you know, hopefully get old, get sick and die. Not everybody gets to do all of those things, but we're definitely going to die. And many people get old and many people get sick. And those are, those are the arrows that life shoots at us.

And then we can shoot ourself with second arrows and third arrows when we bemoaned them and wallow and be like, oh no, me, but, but I didn't want this to happen. And so if we can do that in a way that isn't wallow-y, but is just sort of like acknowledge-y, uh, or like act knowledge E you know, and we, like, I, I, I guess that's, that's just the thing is. I, I love, you know, be, I love knowing what is true or determining what is true, like for me and my own experience and in the world around me, and then finding the people who, you know, who I resonate with. Because, you know, obviously I, I appreciate and accept your assignation as vegan and funny, and yet there are also people who when they hear, like I have some videos out there where people comment like, Hey, I'm thanks for telling me that you're vegan, so I could turn it off.

And I'm like, but that's, I mean... well, okay. Thanks for, uh, commenting on the video 'cause that helps.

Mariann Sullivan: So what kind of, what kind of view? I mean, obviously there's some people out there you're never gonna reach. I would say that right now, not about veganism, but about politics, we were talking about this a little bit before we started talking that comedians are really at the forefront of the resistance at the moment.

I mean, obviously Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, like really, it's really an important moment I think for comedy. To, to like demonstrate its power. So what have, how do you, I mean, of course they're dealing with an easy topic. Eating animals is a much tougher topic to make, to, to get people to laugh at, you know, when they. So where do, like, how do you slide it in? some people are gonna say that, but you do seem to reach a lot of people who aren't vegan, who still manage to laugh at your, at your jokes. I mean, one of the things you do is you make fun of vegans. But in the gentlest, nicest way, you know, kind of an opening way. I'm not that, that's not a criticism.

Myq Kaplan: Oh yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: That appeals to people, but what are your other, like, how do you do that?

Stay honest about what you really feel, but also be funny. it's really challenging.

Myq Kaplan: Yeah, I mean, thank you. I appreciate it. And I think part of it is like to be a comedian, you get used to like, you have to, in order to come up with, you know, to come up with one joke, you have to come up with 10 jokes. To come up with an hour of jokes, you have to come up with thousands of jokes. And so I one of the ways that I determine what is, you know, I... there's what's funny to me. There's what's meaningful to me. There's what's important to me, uh, that I can, that I'm like, I think I can share this. And then I go out and it could be, you know, like they say Edison like, he, there were like a thousand attempts at the light bulb before he found the successful one.

And he didn't see it as 999 failures. He thought it as 999 steps along the path to succeeding at creating the light bulb. And so, you know, for all of the, the specials that you see of mine, all of the, you know, the completed hours, the albums, uh, you know, the live shows that are a honed, curated, you know, set, like there are numerous, you know, room empty, almost empty rooms, fuller rooms like just full of audiences who have seen me tell half a joke, try a joke one way, uh, before figuring out, ah, that'll be better tomorrow. For man, if you were here tomorrow, you would get the, the reap the benefits of the, the suffering that I just caused you. Man, the joy that is going to result in the sorrow that I've carved into you today from other people.

Oh man, I just, you know, it's gonna be beautiful. I do, I I do think that, you know, I think comedy and art in general, I mean, has always been like, as far as you know, in society today. Yes. Like the rise of certain, you know, certain podcasters, certain podcasts have certainly, uh, introduced some people to, uh, you know, different kinds of comedy. And, uh, and yeah, obviously, yeah, your, your Kimmels and your Colberts are, and Seth Meyers are out there, like, really, like, you know, comedying the good fight.

And, and you know, I, who knows how many people they're reaching, who, you know, do or don't agree with them. Or John Oliver, like there's so many people who are like really like telling the truth and telling, like demonstrating be like, look, this is what's happening and this is hopefully what we can do about it.

The Daily Show, John, like there are of course so many people like using their platforms to try and, you know. It's, I guess the interesting thing is like the main, it's inter, I feel like John Stewart specifically has always been like, I am, but a comedian, I am a humble clown. I am, but a jester. You know, I'm not a journalist. I'm not doing something quote unquote important.

And of course he is. And I'm sure that he's aware that he is. But also if he said, I am here to do something important. I am a comedian speaking truth to power, and that is what is necessary in this time, then people could be like. Well, that's a little pretentious. That's a little pompous. That's a little...

So I feel like, you know, erring on the side of humility, but which is also the truth because as a comedian, you want to, you want to find the laugh. And if you wanna find, you know what's funny about something, you can do it about anything. And so I do think when you do it about, uh, real world topics, like be it veganism or, uh, or the political landscape today, like I do think that not all comedy necessarily has the power or ring of truth to it, but there is a, a way that when a joke is true and a joke is, you know, powerful, that. Like, you know, there's an old I I, I know I feel like he is infused through comedy history and I'm sorry to evoke, but I feel like there's a great joke by Louis CK from years ago that when he talked about, he's like, he said, I know that eating animals, I know that killing animals is wrong, I just don't care that it's wrong.

And I think that that captures like something about the zeitgeist of, that's, that's what people feel. They, they, they know it and they don't care enough or they want to avoid it. They want to avoid the documentaries. They want to avoid the information because if you get too much information, then you almost have to do something. You, you can't, there... the cognitive dissonance will eventually, you know, shatter you hopefully, you know, in some sort of epiphany in like a zen koan like way, be like if this, then that.

But then, but that, so I guess I am. I mean that was the way that I became first vegetarian and then vegan was like, I believe... here's a funny story I think that will illustrate this. I had a friend in college who hated cream cheese. That was like the main thing I knew about her. Any form of cream cheese.

And we were in the dining hall and she was eating a carrot cake that had cream cheese frosting. And uh, and everybody in the story's vegan now, everything's great now. But at the time we were all, you know, y young...

Jasmin Singer: i'm sure,

Myq Kaplan: Yeah, yes,

Jasmin Singer: the

Myq Kaplan: of course, of course. But, uh, the.

Mariann Sullivan: It wasn't actually Miyoko...

Myq Kaplan: No, no. It was, yes, it, this was, this was in the past.

Uh, but so my friend who hates cream cheese was eating a cream cheese frosting, uh, carrot cake. And I said to her, Hey, you, you don't like cream cheese? And she said, that's correct. I don't like cream cheese. And I said. You're, did you know that that frosting is cream cheese based? And then I was like, do you like that?

You like what you're eating? And she's like, I do like it. And I was like, did you know that it's cream cheese based? And then she, after having said she liked it, pushed it away from her and said, I guess I don't like it then. And

Jasmin Singer: God.

Myq Kaplan: As opposed to being like, oh, make the shift. And so I feel like that is like the mental contortion that is going on with a lot of people.

But for me, when at first I was like, oh. I'd like to live if I could live in a way that isn't, that is harming fewer beings, I'd like to, but at first I was like, I don't think I can. But then I got to college and there was like a vegetarian station and I was like, maybe I can, and then I, you know, learned about Ethiopian food and Cambodian food and Indian food, that, things that I'd never had, you know, growing up I just had like pizza and burgers and pasta and like.

Now I was like, oh. And so I was like, oh, I received new information and now I can do different things with it. And like another fun a Colbert thing, do you guys remember from 20 years ago when he was at the White House Press correspondence dinner? And George Bush is sitting like right beside him, and Colbert is saying like in, you know, as his character at the time, The Colbert Report character, he's saying like, this man President George W. Bush, he is a consistent man. He believes the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happens on Tuesday.

And I think that, I think about that so frequently and that's like a perfect, like if somebody hears that joke, like I think they must internalize, like, or receive explicitly like, oh, when I re, when somebody receives new information, they should like, that must have an impact.

Mariann Sullivan: It's a brilliant joke.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, that's brilliant. And I mean, that's something.

Mariann Sullivan: I'm trying to struggle with that Louis CK, uh, uh, joke because, you know, my instinct to when I hear that is like, well, that's not funny. But, um, obviously a lot of people who eat animals think it's funny because it's, it's keying into something.

And I think being, I haven't quite pinned it down in my head, but being able to understand why people think that's funny. Because it, it solves a discomfort or something. It, it, it

Myq Kaplan: Yes.

Mariann Sullivan: forgives them and also makes, it, makes them the, the, the normal one. I, that's not enough, but it's something along there.

But that's a really interesting, uh, just a really interesting little piece to think about. Like what it is that, that goes through people's minds and how much, how much they desperately want permission and forgiveness. Or not exactly forgiveness, just, just being told that they're not doing something wrong.

'Cause they, and the only reason they want that is 'cause they're worried that they're doing something wrong. Otherwise, it wouldn't be funny at all. That's why it's not funny to me. 'cause you know...

Myq Kaplan: Oh, yes. Because you're, you're, yeah. That joke is not for you. No. That it is. Absolutely. It comes from the same insecurity, the same self-consciousness that your actor, your fellow actor has when they say, well, but it's delicious. You know? It's basically just like, well, but, uh, the system is the way the system is, you know, even though it's made of the people that could change it, you know, like.

I have a friend who posted a joke that was something like, you know, I'm really sorry that I can't help you be because we have a policy that I came up with. You know, like.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah,

Myq Kaplan: Sorry, what can I do? And, and that's the thing, the, the separation from, you know, what is real and like the story we're telling about it. The, the policy that we have, like, look, it's not me, it's me from earlier who made a decision that I don't wanna revisit, you know?

Uh.

Mariann Sullivan: Absolutely. I, you know, both of those jokes actually go sort. of to that same thing. It's so interesting to think. Humor is just so interesting. I wish I knew more about it.

Myq Kaplan: Oh, I mean, that's, that's so funny what you just, I wish I knew more about humor. That's so, that's delightful. Uh, yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: People have written like, why is this funny? And even though that may sound counter counterintuitive, it, it's either funny or it isn't. Like, let's face it, it's either funny or it isn't. You can, you can't explain it into being funny as a general rule.

Myq Kaplan: I,

Mariann Sullivan: Uh, but still, it's so interesting to think of why, why is that funny?

Myq Kaplan: Well, I have, I have something that I can offer. Yeah, I have,

Mariann Sullivan: it goes deep into your in, into like all of these secret thoughts you're having that make it be funny.

Myq Kaplan: And I think you, you know, you're, you hit the nail on the head. Especially because when you said that joke's not funny to you, like humor is subjective. There are like contexts in which, you know, a joke will be funny to somebody but not somebody else. Like even as simple as just like, you know, if you like, there might be somebody who is dealing, has a loved one who has cancer and they, they might love to hear Tig Notaro's hour, like hour of comedy or half hour of comedy about her cancer diagnosis because it might feel cathartic and resonant and connected. Or it could be too much. They want escapism, they want, they don't want, like, I got this at work.

I don't want this, you know, on my off time, but there's a book called, uh, The Humor Code that a, a scientist who is a friend of mine named Peter McGraw wrote. And his theory that he discusses in the book of... he, he wants to have a unified like theory of what's funny and his theory is benign violation. That that is what, where laughter comes from.

Like going back to evolutionarily like cave person times, for example, like if the bushes rustle you might be afraid that a, a saber-tooth tiger is about to jump out and kill you. So you're scared. It's a violation, but then if your friend jumps out, you're like, oh. And you might laugh, like out of the relief that you're still alive.

It's actually benign and so in comedy, for example, like Sarah Silverman early on was, you know, a, a really sharp satirist and might say things that on paper would be like, oh, this is about race, this is about gender. This might be, you know, if somebody really believed the things that she was saying, uh, that would be a not a person that you'd wanna be your friend, but because she's saying it like to lampoon racism to lampoon, you know, sexual assault or what have you. Like, it's not to say that everyone will find the jokes funny, but if you know that she's a kindhearted person intending them, it's a benign violation.

It seem, has the appearance of a violation, but it is benign.

Mariann Sullivan: It is really, it's really important where it's coming from. That makes it a huge, big deal. I, I don't know whether I agree that there's one theory of

Myq Kaplan: Oh.

Mariann Sullivan: wouldn't explain why French people aren't funny at all, even though, even though they think they are.

And,

Myq Kaplan: Yes.

Mariann Sullivan: Irish, I think. Uh, that I'm Irish from Ireland, but I think everybody from Ireland is hilarious. Like there's gotta be something cultural about it.

Myq Kaplan: Uh, absolutely. I also don't know that everything has been captured in this one neat little package. But here's one other joke I wanna share with you that I, I wish I knew who it was 'cause I heard it on a joke compilation years ago. Uh, it was a, a collection of jokes about cars and this, uh, the joke was a guy, he's like, I was driving and I saw a sign that said, bump ahead.

And then I drove a little further and I saw a sign that said bump. And then a little later. There was a bump and I was like, if you know where it is, why don't you fix it? And I love that. And then I shared that with Rini, uh, my wonderful partner, uh, whose name is the same name as my special that comes out next week.

Uh, just a little commercial there for it. But Rini and I were at a show, uh, a little while later, and we saw a comedian on stage talking about how when he gets into relationships early on, he's, you know, a good partner. But when it gets too close, when he starts to have more, you know, more feelings, he'll then pull back and then do things to make them break up with him because he's, you know, afraid of intimacy. And Rini whispers to me, she's like, if you know where it is, why don't you fix it?

Jasmin Singer: love

Myq Kaplan: And I think that's what's going on in, you know, in that Lois joke in, like, if you know. You know, why don't you fix it?

And it's because of some combination of, you know, of laziness, of, of comfort, of fear of the unknown. Of being like, well, now I have to do something and do more. Oh boy. You know, it's easier to just stay asleep.

Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: Myq, now that you've told us about the special, tell us more about the special, uh,

Myq Kaplan: Sure.

Jasmin Singer: people watch it?

Mariann Sullivan: you. 'cause people will

Myq Kaplan: Yes, of course. Uh, so it will be on YouTube starting at 8:00 PM Eastern Time on November 19th, it'll be on my channel in collaboration with Blonde Medicine, which is my, uh, producers. And, uh, so if, if you go there anytime before then you can click notify me and it'll let you know. And anytime after then you can just watch it.

But if you watch it at that time, I'll be in there, in the, uh, in the comments interacting with people. Uh, very excited that Rini, and I'll tell you. So Rini, the name of the special is named for Rini, uh, my wonderful partner because we created the show together about our relationship. And while there is, uh, less explicit vegan material in this special compared to many of my other hours of comedy, which where there is much vegan content, I will say that, uh, in addition to me being vegan, Rini is vegan. So really the special, it might be the first special name named after a vegan. So, uh, feel and, and the special, yeah. Yeah. It is about, you know, our relationship, our love, our togetherness. And so in the spirit of, I think the reason to be vegan is, you know, in, in a Buddhist paradigm, I know that the goal of many Buddhists is the increase of happiness, and the decrease of suffering for all sentient beings. And that is, I think, the goal. You know, that is certainly my in. Uh, my goal as a vegan as well is the, uh, decrease and hopeful elimination of suffering for all sentient beings and the increase of joy for all sentient beings. So, uh, Rini is sentient being who brings me a lot of joy, and I hope that the special brings you, everyone who's listening, a lot of joy as well.

Mariann Sullivan: And you

Jasmin Singer: it.

Mariann Sullivan: don't like, just 'cause we're all vegan doesn't mean we have to, everything has to be about being vegan though. We just meant that the podcast had to be about being vegan.

Myq Kaplan: Yes, yes.

Mariann Sullivan: Many people out there who just would like to hear more about Reine and about, uh, about all of the, um, things that you do in your life that are hilariously funny, which is what it will be about.

So.

Jasmin Singer: I am very excited about this special and also hats off to Reine because, uh, you know, she's helping you with this. With this lovely journey you're on,

Myq Kaplan: Yes.

Jasmin Singer: happy that this also culminated in you being here on Our Hen House again. Uh, so Myq Kaplan, MYQ, Myq, thank you so much for joining us again on Our Hen House.

And for those of you watching, thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite pod catcher or on YouTube since you'll already be there watching Myq's special. Uh, and if you are watching this or listening to this, please know that between now and the end of the year, all donations made to Our Hen House, which is a nonprofit, are being tripled.

So you can learn more at ourhenhouse.org/support. And thank you for keeping, media that you believe in alive and well, and comedy that you believe in alive and well by supporting Myq Kaplan's work. Uh, so thank you, Myq. I hope you come back again soon

Myq Kaplan: Thank you. Same.

Jasmin Singer: And thank you to those of you out there, we'll talk to you next week.