Plant-Based Policy Initiatives with Animal Policy Alliance

We're going to be talking about the work that is nearest and dearest to every animal lover's heart, vegan advocacy. Uh, but before we get into that, just a really quick reminder, Our Hen House is like... consider Our Hen House a universe, and we have all of these like little planets. And one of the planets is Rising Anxieties, which comes out on Tuesdays.

The Hen Report is another planet that comes out on Thursdays and the long form interview, which is this, comes out on Fridays. Bonus for flock members comes out on Mondays. And remember, we're a podcast and we're on YouTube, so please subscribe and hit like wherever you listen. So Mariann, do you wanna introduce our guests today?

Mariann Sullivan: Yes, though I, I have to say I didn't understand that whole planet analogy.

Jasmin Singer: You know what? I'm so tired

to be fully frank. Like, I, I don't even know what planet,

Mariann Sullivan: I don't know.

Jasmin Singer: I don't know. what planet I'm on, But like,

Mariann Sullivan: Fortunately, we don't have to figure that out. Alright

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Jodi Gruhn, who is the director of Wholesome Minnesota drives policy initiatives to put plant-based options on cafeteria trays and build community partnerships. Judy Wolf, God, I, I've always wanted, I've always wanted an animal name. Uh, my mother's, my mother's last name was Fox, and I was so jealous that I got stuck with Sullivan. I dunno. Judy Wolf, who is the Chief Program and Policy Officer for Humane Communities for Animal Protection, New Mexico, will be speaking with us specifically about their Dairy's Not Fair Campaign. And Brenna Anderst, who has been with us before, is the senior policy advisor at the Humane League, and she provides support to members of the Animal Policy Alliance.

And, and maybe Brenna, you could, uh, start us off for those who haven't heard the other Animal Policy Alliance interviews, can you just explain it does and why all you people are here and, and, uh, and how you bring it all together?

Branna Anderst: Absolutely. So the Animal Policy Alliance is a project of the Humane League that was founded in 2022, and it is a collective group of animal organizations working at the state and local level, driving public policy change for animals. And we are bringing this collective group of organizations together to share resources, provide networking opportunities, and also continue to build our power to advance legislative change on behalf of animals across the US. Right now we have grown to 31 organizations across 21 states, including Washington DC and we're continuing to grow. Um, we've got a lot of momentum now with this partnership with Our Hen House. And we've even had a few organizations that have joined since we started this podcast series and they've heard some of our messages, our stories, and have gotten interested in joining the movement.

Um, so it's been really exciting to see our trajectory move forward over the last year, and we're looking forward to our growth in 2026 as well.

Jasmin Singer: Amazing. And yes, thank you again for coming back here. I, uh, you know, I had a little bit of a brain fart before, but now I'm kicking myself because I'm like, oh my gosh, of course it's Brenna. Like, yeah, I, I know. I don't know too many Brenna's. And, and, and now I will put you in a lockbox in my head, Brenna, so you're there forever.

Okay. I'm glad you're there. Yeah, of course. And we love your work so much and it's been such a joy, uh, with Our Hen House exploring this, this work. I mean, the truth is that we were super eager to be talking to you regularly because of the fact that this is among the most important work that anyone can be doing to create change for animals.

And one of the most empowering things about animal advocacy is, is when the horror of what is happening to animals overwhelms you, it is possible to work very effectively for them through not fighting against the abuse, but advocating for dietary change. And, and I'd love, Jodi, if you could talk a little bit about the approach that you take at Wholesome Minnesota.

'Cause you know, Mariann and I have been involved in vegan advocacy for decades, and to me that is the thing that can keep you going is, is like advocating for dietary change. 'Cause everyone has a diet, everyone eats. So Jodi, I'd love it to learn more about what you're doing.

Jodi Gruhn: Um, everybody eats and everybody loves delicious food, and I think that's kind of where Wholesome Minnesota comes in, especially as we start educating younger and younger audiences about animal welfare, um, about the environment, um, about general health concerns, um, when we look at animal agriculture. Um, but Wholesome Minnesota is a part of Compassionate Action for Animals. And I'm a program, so I lead a program where we work basically for institutional change where we're working to increase plant-based options in Minnesota institutions in particular. Um, I focused my work, um, very specifically on schools for the last four years or so, and started out with sort of just having those general conversations with school nutrition directors. And at first, I was met with resistance and now I am met with a lot more open arms as more and more students are asking for these options, are understanding sort of the impact of our plates on the planet, on, um, human health, and they are getting more and more concerned about animal welfare. We're starting to see that a little bit more, which I'm excited about.

I think that, um, I think the word is getting out there. So, um, yeah, we're working on policy. Um, one of the things that we recognize is we can continue to have these conversations, but policy is how you really put things into effect. So, we actually are members of APA and they have been extremely helpful in helping us kind of connect with other organizations that have helped us kind of move the dial in this area. Um, in terms of school progress, uh, we actually do have two bills, um, both in our house and Senate to look at a plant-based option in Minnesota schools, just offering an option. Pretty simple, um, not going too far, not too extreme for anything, but just getting an option for those students that want it because we actually see a lot more families wanting an option.

They may not be 100% plant-based, but they wanna move their diet into that kind of direction.

Mariann Sullivan: All of that is really exciting to hear. I think the most exciting thing to hear is that there is like more of a focus on, on the animals. Uh, 'cause I think so, so often one of the sacrifices you have to make in talking about dietary changes that you, that you, you can't really talk about the animals, but maybe I'm living in the past, so, uh, so, um. You know, I think probably most of our listeners have heard about, uh, the like the plant-based defaults kind of policies 'cause we've had people on talking about it but tell us a little bit about, about how you take... I understand that's like the approach you're taking in, um, in cafeterias in schools.

And, and tell us if if I'm right. and exactly how it works. Like how do you, how do you get kids to, uh, to choose the plant-based default.

How do you get it on the menu? And then how do you get them to choose it? Because you're not forcing them to be vegan,

Jodi Gruhn: Right.

Mariann Sullivan: if they just put me in charge, that's what we would do, but nobody puts me in charge.

Jodi Gruhn: I would like to do that too. I feel that, you know, one of the ways to, I mean, policy is how we actually get it on the menu, um, but we also are finding that education moves people along, you know, the, the plant-based aisle. So I speak at the Minnesota School Nutrition Conference. I do webinars for the Minnesota School Nutrition Association, and I just bring plant-based to the forefront to show them that it's easy, it's simple, it's not as hard. Because that's one of the things that I'm finding is that there's this assumption that it's difficult because most people haven't grown up this way.

I didn't grow up this way. Um, I found it a little bit later in life, but I found like, I become more creative. It's abundant. You eat so much more and interesting foods. And the more and more we sort of expose, um, both school nutrition directors and the, the work, the, the professionals that work in the cafeterias and the students, we can see them actually choosing that option. The other thing that I do is I go into the schools and work in the culinary classes. So we still do have, um, fax classes here in our state, and I will come in and do a plant-based unit. Make something absolutely delicious that kids that maybe never could've, would've ever tried tofu before, for example, finally get the opportunity to try it, because they're not gonna go choose a plant-based option when they're out with their friends or their families if they've never had it before, because they, you know, they don't know.

So exposing and normalizing is key to the work.

Jasmin Singer: I wanna, uh, check in with Judy in just a moment, but before we do, Jodi, you said you came to all of this later in life. Give us the short version of how that happened.

Jodi Gruhn: Uh, well the short version, um, was I was vegetarian for a really long time, starting kind of in my like early teens and then I'd flip flop here and there based upon the protein question and all that kind of stuff. Then I was solidly vegetarian, and then about 10 years ago I went vegan and it was by attending a veg fest.

It was understanding that it was possible, that there were resources and there were people and there was foods that I could get at restaurants, um, and just seeking it all out. So really it was having that infrastructure built, knowing where to go to learn that it was an opportunity and an option for me. And that's why I think places like Compassionate Action for Animals, putting, put, putting events on, like Veg Fests can really open up people's eyes to the opportunities and kind of the, the abundance that is out there.

Jasmin Singer: And you're such a great spokesperson. I mean, I've been chatting with you for 10 minutes and it's so obvious what a win for animals that we got you. Uh, and the power of a VegFest. Right? That's so cool to hear. Alright, Judy, tell us about Dairy's Not Fair. And, and why did you decide to focus on dairy specifically?

Judy Wolf: Well, um, you know, we do have a plant-based eating program at Animal Protection New Mexico, and I think that is the key, we are animal protection. So one of our programs is the promoting plant-based eating, and we do some of the same things that have already been mentioned. We work for institutional change, whether that be restaurants, um, we're gonna start entering into hospitals and certainly education into schools, which we have done a little bit through cooking classes, and through just a lot of flyers and outreach while we're at the schools or while we're at tabling events. We also have a very strong social media component. However, when we became members of Animal Policy Alliance, we were able to kind of take a little bit of a different shift, a different trajectory. We started out by working on a kettle agricultural report for all of New Mexico, and quickly realized that there were pieces in that paper that we could pull out and create a dairy brief, which then would become the foundation for our policy. What was a good starting point? Well, plant-based milks in schools. We started to really look at the National School Lunch Program and we saw how heavily dairy was subsidized. We saw the myth around needing a whole glass of milk for health. We saw, um, looked at lactose intolerance rates, and we realized lactose intolerance is not a disability, which the National School Lunch Program calls it, but it's actually the norm. And so we started to wonder, what about all these kids who do not, um, have access to milks at lunch and what can we, how can we address this issue and how can we do it in a way that promotes animal protection, but also looks at health equity? And so, um, Animal Policy Alliance very generously agreed to fund that dairy brief that was pulled from the larger report.

And so that now is the foundation of one of our policy goals. And for us, it is very simple. We want plant-based milks offered right next to dairy milks in all schools in New Mexico.

Mariann Sullivan: So they, they just passed that new law, or no, they didn't pass it. I think the Senate passed it at the federal level.

Judy Wolf: Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: I, you know, which, which I think that has gotten a lot of press because it's supporting whole milk, but it's also, it's creating a real opportunity for you as well, isn't it? That if it passes and it's signed, which I think everybody expects it will be, it's gonna be easier to promote plant-based milk.

Is that right?

Judy Wolf: It is going to be easier, but there's a caveat. We want plant-based milks next to dairy milk. It still makes it an option. We don't want it to be an option. And the other concern is that right now the school lunch program only reimburses the full cost of plant-based milks if there's a doctor's note and if it's a disability, like lactose intolerance.

Now we have read this bill, and maybe Brenna can help me in confirming this, it looks like under the whole milk bill, sure, a parent can still give a note in place of a doctor for lactose intolerance. Our question is what about the children who prefer other reasons? For taste, for veganism, for all of those other reasons that children don't want dairy milk.

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, I didn't realize they had to claim that. Like remember that time we were at Disneyland, Jasmin?

Jasmin Singer: Yes. We literally

Mariann Sullivan: We wanted the vegan icecream

Jasmin Singer: about to, say it.

Mariann Sullivan: but we had to tell them we had an allergy.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: So that's what they're doing. I didn't realize that. That's disappointing. Can you be allergic to, uh, lactose because it's cruel?

Like I'm allergic to the cruelty. Like, I guess, I guess, when you're dealing with kids, you don't wanna get too imaginative with the, with uh, fooling around with the truth. That's very disappointing.

Judy Wolf: Yeah, it, it is disappointing. Um, and you know, we are still, we look at the verbiage very closely. For lactose intolerance, schools shall provide an option. For any other reason, they may provide an option. We wanna get rid of that may. We want soy milk or other plant based beverages shall be next to dairy milk in schools.

Mariann Sullivan: An excellent goal. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. I love that. And I'll, Judy, I, I'm sure that most of our listeners are already familiar with the horrors of dairy production. You know, like, like Jodi was just saying, I think a lot of us were vegetarian first. Uh, I certainly was. Mariann was. I, I think we, many of us had had that same story as Jodi in our youth, where we went maybe bounced back and forth a little bit in.

For me, when I learned about dairy and egg production, to me it was the most egregious thing I'd ever seen. You're obviously from New Mexico. Can you describe exactly like how particularly bad dairy production is in the Southwest?

Judy Wolf: Well, and it's interesting. I wanna say I also was a vegetarian for years, and I thought that was the answer. I was completely unaware of what the cost of dairy was to the environment, to animal welfare. It was my, um, younger son who became a vegan in his teens, and he said to me multiple times, don't you know what is happening to cows? And um, so I also became a later convert to being a vegan. I had no idea. And I find it, you know, if us vegetarians don't really have a concept of what's happening on dairy farms, how do we expect the general population? Um, New Mexico is, uh, unique. We have 84 dairies, but what we have is the largest average population across those dairies, and that means 2,700 cows per um, dairy on average. 69 of these are mega, which means that there's more than 2,500 cows. They are... we are full of dairies that are where the cows are just packed in, in these factory type horrific situations. They're located in five eastern counties and it's called Dairy Row, and that's where 85% of the milk production occurs. Um. We have of course, serious environmental concerns, one of which is water. It is New Mexico. We are an arid state. We are very dry. Um, these dairies overlay what's called the Ogallala Aquifer. That is where the major source of water comes from, fresh water for these dairies. And already they think that that will be non-viable within the next 10 to 15 years. So we have, um, environmental concerns with land, with water, of course, with methane, disposal of sewage. I believe in New Mexico, it's 8,000 pounds of sewage every day. Um. You know that sewage is used as fertilizer, but that much fertilizer isn't needed. And so it stays in these sewage ponds. And then there's just the general, the communities around these dairies, you have higher rates of asthma, higher rates of particulates, you have flies, you have parents keeping their childrens inside the house.

So it's, a whole gamut when you look at the dairy industry, it's absolutely the animal welfare, it's the environment. And then it's, um, in a population like New Mexico where 64% of people are predisposed to lactose intolerance, that's what they're offered in the schools.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it really is crazy. So Jodi, y you...while Judy's story has a kind of health argument built in. Lactose intolerance is a, you know, obviously it's, as you point out, it's not a disability, it's just a fact of life for a lot of people. And, and, and so your health argument is built in. What about you? Do you mostly focus, uh, particularly working with policy makers, do you mostly focus on health messages and, and, and like, what do you tell them? because they're they're not convinced that that plants are good for you, are they? Or are they?

Jodi Gruhn: I think, uh, they, I think there is a general knowledge that plants are good for you. Um, I think that there's still that, um, misunderstanding that plant-based is not like an appropriate diet for anyone. Um, they, they, um, you know, we try to show them we're thriving, our children are thriving. You know, there's many, many... you know, all the documentaries out there that they could potentially watch. I know they're not doing that. Um, but what we're finding is like there is, the health message does resonate with some, the climate mess message definitely is resonating a little bit better almost than the health message. But when we're talking to legislators, they're really concerned about cost and they're really concerned, um, right now about food waste. Um, because that has been such a priority in at least our state. Um, food waste is getting a lot of airtime. And so we're really trying to navigate that argument with, you know, talking about offering students like a plate where they aren't having to pick and choose items off the plate and throw them away, or making them take a dairy milk and they throw it in the garbage.

I mean, and that does happen like the time. In fact,

Mariann Sullivan: That's huge, isn't it? The amount of milk waste in, in schools is... I used to throw mine at, I always hated milk.

Jodi Gruhn: And many students don't know they aren't required to take a milk and it is not a law, however, most people think they need to. And a lot of times they're told they need to take a milk by the food service professionals in the cafeterias.

And then they say, well, I'm not gonna drink it. And they are told, well, just throw it away. I mean, it's basically just like throw it away. But you know, what signal are we giving in terms of supply and demand if we're just, you know, like telling students take this thing that you're just throwing in the trash anyway?

Like, we're not really telling the markets what students want. Um. with the food waste argument, you know, we really do talk about like the fact that like creating the plate that is created for a particular student, um, we're also able to kind of talk about, you know, creating the plate that actually will fit the needs of multiple students.

So not just your, you know, your vegan student. But you know, your student that has religious um, desires. You know, there's a lot of religions that won't allow you to eat factory farmed meat at school or won't allow you to combine meat and dairy. Um, so there's a lot of things that we need to think about when we're offering students, students potentially a religious meal. And while it's not, um, required to offer those, some school districts because they have a larger population, may offer those types of meals, but plant-based can really solve that problem for, and just all of a sudden you're feeding a lot more students.

two, for us, we're a universal meal state, which means every student gets a lunch for free and breakfast for free. And how is this universal and not, if not everyone can take a meal? So if we're providing meals that not everyone can actually access, this is not universal school meals. So, um, that, that argument is really kind of a gotcha moment a little bit where they're, they kind of get that as well.

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, that is a i I, that is a brilliant argument. It really is. It just covers everybody.

Jodi Gruhn: It really does.

Mariann Sullivan: Kosher? Who cares?

Jodi Gruhn: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: I.

Mariann Sullivan: It just covers every possible choice.

Jodi Gruhn: Yeah, it does. It really does. It also can help with the allergen meals as well, you know, because there's a lot of students with dairy and egg allergies.

Mariann Sullivan: Sure. I mean, especially eggs. Eggs are a really common allergen.

Jodi Gruhn: Yep.

Mariann Sullivan: So Judy, are you focused completely on policy work or are you working with the students as well regarding, uh, dairy choices?

Judy Wolf: So right now we are in the education portion of our work. So we are doing massive community education because, um, you know, it's interesting we bring up this topic and so many people with whom we talk say I, number one, I never knew that I could even get soy milk in school through a med, through a doctor's note. Others are like, we never even understood that it was an issue. Others are like, so these, um, this sick, this, you know, sickness I'm feeling after drinking milk, I don't really have to put up with that? Um. So yeah, we are reaching out. Uh, we have a online petition and we are just building grassroots and coalition support.

But at the same time, we have, on the policy side, we have engaged in conversations with legislators. And to date, our conversations have been really positive. But it's more than just the policy. We need our communities to know that you don't have to continue on this trend of dairy milk. You can and should be looking into the health benefits of milk in general.

I mean, again, milk is a myth, but as long as that myth of needing it for health is out there, we want to ensure that people have an alternative, that they have options, that they can choose plant-based milks. Part of our education, we do it through social media, we do it through one-on-ones with other organizations. We, um, again, are sitting with legislators and we also are entering into schools. We have talked with some parents and some counselors and teachers who agree with us and we, um, worked in a couple schools this last year and we probably will this coming year, where again, we do our plant-based eating education and we have, you know, environmental animal welfare flyers and all these pieces.

And then we'll add to that our information on plant-based milks and,

Jasmin Singer: Hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: So you, you would kind of embed the milk message into a broader plant-based message?

Judy Wolf: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: When you're dealing , uh, with public, uh, education.

Judy Wolf: Yes, we, yes, we, we do both all together. And we also recognize, um, we have run into questions on soy. And so I think we all know there's myths around soy, and so we're also working to address those myths as well.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, that's the truth. That God like people, it's just unbelievable how people think soy is bad for you and milk is good for you. It's unbelievable.

Judy Wolf: It, it is.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah. So, Jody, do plant-based by default policies which promote plants rather than trying to ban animal foods lessen the opposition at all? Or are they just as opposed? And who, who is the main opposition?

Jodi Gruhn: So in schools we don't try for defaults necessarily. We can't, you know, ha, half the time we can't even get a plant-based option. So defaulting that way is just not, I don't think schools are ready for it. Or the way that the National School Lunch program is set up isn't really ready for defaults yet. I would love to see that and once they understand the research and how powerful it is, and potentially maybe when there is more policy kind of around, you know, all of these issues that we're discussing, um, they may move in that direction to understand that students will choose these items if they are actually out there. Um. We actually just worked on a policy, um, with Civic Plate, um, through actually, um, APA, uh, I actually had watched, um, the, um, conference last year.

They, uh, publicized their conference and then put it online and I watched it and I heard, um, Alex Cerrusi speak and I was so moved by her words and the things that they were doing that I reached out to her through LinkedIn and we just kind of met and you know, networking and stuff.

And I just said, if there's ever any opportunity to work with you in Minnesota, I would love, I would love it. And that's all it took. I mean, they basically kind of came in and worked with me and worked with a few key volunteers and we've now, um, gotten, um, a default policy put in place in one of our largest counties in Minnesota. Um, so it's not, it was something that our leaders here saw from the sustainability perspective that they wanted to walk the walk completely. Um, so looking at the food that they're serving in the, in, you know, in at their meetings and at their events. While it's not a lot, it kind of sets a precedent. It sends the message out there to what's important to our state and to, um, to kind of our sustainable initiatives and that they really wanna, you know, walk the walk.

Jasmin Singer: Hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: Is that the Hennepin County, uh, initiative? Can you tell, can you tell, give, give us a little bit more detail about how that works?

Jodi Gruhn: Sure. Basically, you know, it's, it's basically setting up, um, defaults basically now in Hennepin County, um, at meetings and events that people attend, whether that would be a, um, an employee or, you know, a, a, a person like me who is coming to a Hennepin County event, um, there will be a default of, of a plant-based.

So I believe it's two thirds plant-based or half plant-based. Um, and then, um, and then the rest would be more of your conventional food. Um, the thing that's beautiful about this is it basically is expanding options. It's not taking anything away, it's just expanding what they're serving to make sure that everybody's needs are met.

So again, it's that abundance factor. It's expansion, not taking anything away, but it's putting those foods because we know when we put those first or most forward, people will take them. It's not like they're looking for a particular food. We always choose kind of what's easiest unless we, you know, have our, our belief system that's guiding us towards certain foods. So anybody that's a conventional eater is gonna see that delicious donut on the plate, they're not gonna wonder if it's a vegan donut or if it's a regular donut. We wonder about that. But now we could, we can go to an event like that, grab a donut and feel really comfortable about, about what we're eating.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, it really is unbelievable how people actually don't care what they're eating and it's so hard to make this happen. But if you just like put it in front of them, they'll actually, they're fine. They'll eat it. It's, so crazy. The whole, the whole, this whole world is so crazy. So, uh, Judy. I had asked, um, Jodi about, about, uh, opposition and I can imagine that you would be facing a lot of opposition.

I mean, the dairy world is...can be pretty nasty, and you have a huge dairy industry there in New Mexico, so are you up against it?

Judy Wolf: Yeah, the dairy industry is huge. Um, we are at the very beginning of our work with this. We have the dairy brief in hand, and we have just begun our messaging and talk with legislators. That's a good question. We are looking at options. We are not looking at, just like Jodi has spoken, we are not looking at becoming the default.

We are not looking at taking other things off the table. Our focus right now is options for health equity. And a corollary to that is absolutely, um, animal protection and animal welfare issues. But we truly believe that if we can frame this as a health equity issue, because it is, and in, in addition to all of those other things, it is a health equity issue, that should give us more traction. We're just, yeah, um, ex... I'm sure. We do expect that we're going to have a little bit of a fight over this, but that's the community engagement part right now. That's all of the education that we're doing. We in all of our legislation prior to our policy push, we always do just extensive coalition building across grassroots and grass tops.

And we work very closely, um, when we move towards policy with legislators who really support our goals. So it, it's a, it's a heavy lift and it, it's, it takes a long time. It takes a while, but we're in here for it. And as long as we can get that foundation laid correctly, we do feel positive about our eventual outcome.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. I, I do too. And I think the approach you're taking is, I mean, that you're both taking of, um, I mean you're still at the, we're just providing options, um, stage, and I think that's very powerful and particularly with your focus on lactose intolerance. And you're not, your focus on it, but not your exclusive focus on it, I think is really important. Can you just pin like you mentioned, collaborations. Like can you just tell us a bit of like what those collaborations are like and who they're with?

Who you either real already are working with, or who you anticipate being able to work with and, you know, what area, like, whether it's specific groups or whether it's just areas of focus that, uh, some other groups might have. Uh, like who are you thinking of for partnerships?

Judy Wolf: So we definitely, um, are hoping to get some schools on our side and some school administration. We have a lot of threads out there yet that we're only beginning to pursue. And, and I should be, um, careful in how I frame this, but we are moving into the 2026 legislative session and we already have our legislative priorities.

That's our main focus right now. So when we're looking at the plant-based milks. Right now it's, we're at the foundation stage. We're looking towards 2027. So not all of those collaborations and partnerships have been realized yet. We're still in preparation, but we can anticipate there are a few local health equity groups that we would like to be working with. There, um, are a couple vegan organizations, um, that work with different communities or diverse communities throughout the state, that we're going to be working with them. And we hope to engage with nutritionists and just other experts in the field. But, uh, as excited as we are, we are still right now building those efforts.

And once, um, once we have made it through the 2026 session with our other priorities, we will hit the ground running, probably in March 2026.

Jasmin Singer: Brenna going back to you. Uh, this has been such a fascinating topic to me, and obviously it is to you too, because it's what you've devoted your life to. What has been the role of the Animal Policy Alliance in these efforts?

Branna Anderst: So the Animal Policy Alliance really acts in a supportive role and also a convening role. Um., Jodi already mentioned how through the Animal Policy Alliance, Wholesome Minnesota was able to connect with Civic Plate, which then was the catalyst to getting the Hennepin County plant-based by default policy passed.

Um, but we also provide exclusive grant funding to our APA members. We do annual or sometimes semi-annual grants that are only available to our APA members, which is huge because of course, in this movement we've got a lot of really amazing organizations all kind of going for the same pots of money. Within the Annual Policy Alliance, we have this exclusive opportunity just for our handful of APA members.

And it's to help them to either launch or start pilot campaigns. Um, so we've been able to fund a lot of really great initiatives for our APA members and give them kind of that, like that foot in the door, that leg up to really grow their initiatives, grow their presence in their communities, and continue to advance plant-based policies, as well as other animal related policies.

We're also able to provide tailored research for our APA members. So if, um, an APA member is working on a policy and maybe with some guidance on drafting that policy language, we're able to step provide, um, input there as well as point them in the direction of other resources to really make sure that their policies are well researched. They're backed up by facts, and that they'll also be able to hold up when it comes to implementation and enforcement later down the road.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I can imagine having that kind of structure, I mean, that's what we've said in all of these interviews, having that kind of structure would be reassuring for people who, who maybe are, you know, I, which wouldn't include either Judy or Jodi, I don't think, not right beginning in, efforts, uh, but there are people out there probably who haven't really gotten involved yet and who wanna participate.

And maybe if there isn't the right group in their own community yet, uh, they would wanna start one, which is kind of daunting. So, um, what can, if there are people who are intrigued, uh, what should they do? How should they get in touch with you, and what can you offer to help them?

Branna Anderst: Absolutely. Well, first of all, the Animal Policy Alliance is made up of a diverse group of organizations. Some of them are very new and they haven't even achieved their nonprofit status yet, so they're just kind of doing grassroots work, getting their foot in the door with policymaking. And then we have other groups that are very well established with decades of experience working on policy initiatives.

And that's one of the big values of the Animal Policy Alliance is we're bringing these groups together, these more experienced, more established groups can provide guidance to newer groups, and newer groups can learn from the mistakes of past initiatives from these other groups. But, but our more established groups can also learn from new groups that are maybe more nimble trying things out.

Maybe they have, um, more of the ability to test out new ideas than a more established group has. So there's benefits on both ends of the spectrum here. Um, but if we have any, um, either newly formed groups or established animal policy groups out there across the US either working at the local level or the state level.

Um. Any of them are welcome to apply to join the Animal Policy Alliance. You can go to our website at animalpolicyalliance.org and once there you can click on apply and there is an application that can be filled out that'll, um, go over a variety of questions about their interest in membership.

They'll have to go through an interview process, a vetting process, um, and then once they are accepted, they will be introduced to the rest of the alliance and have access to our monthly membership calls, our annual APA summit, which is when we bring all the groups together in a specific location somewhere in the US to network and share ideas. Um, and that'll also get them access to things like our grant opportunities and our exclusive website where we have lots of bill templates and other resources that they can utilize.

Mariann Sullivan: I would imagine too that the website is useful for people who, who maybe are not at the point where they wanna start an organization, they're just looking to get active, but they could find organizations that might be somewhat local to them or in their state at least, where they could connect with, with those org, those organizations.

So not really connecting directly with you, but, but just finding out about some local organizations that are, that are doing some good stuff.

Branna Anderst: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, anyone can go to our website and click on organizations and get a whole list of our public APA membership, and clicking on each of their logos can get you to their websites where you can get their contact information. If there are any local advocates that are looking for an organization in their state that they maybe wanna reach out to and partner with.

Jasmin Singer: Brenna, what other legislative proposals in in this area are pending in other states around the country?

Branna Anderst: Yeah, I mean there's, there's so much going on in the plant-based movement right now because overall it is, it is a relatively new concept in terms of policy. So there, there still is a lot we don't know. We don't have that historical data that tells us what the best policy method is. So we've heard, uh, Jodi talking about plant-based by default.

We've heard about Judy talking about lack of equitable access to milk alternatives. There's, there's a lot of different pathways we can take here. One, one of the, the bigger bills that's out there right now is actually at the federal level, it was just introduced this last month, um, called the, uh, Plant Powered School Meals Pilot Act. It creates a grant program for schools to offer more plant-based options to students. And it also does seek to address the milk alternative issue by requiring, rather than allowing schools to offer plant-based alternatives, and it doesn't require, uh, the students to come with that doctor's note that we were all talking about.

Um. of course that bill was just introduced it ha it was introduced in the house. It hasn't moved yet. It's a brand new bill, but it definitely is an exciting possibility or step forward.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, it is exciting though it is a little hard to imagine progress at the federal level...

Branna Anderst: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But that's, that's why the Animal Policy Alliance and our members are, are so important because you're right, it is, it's so hard to advance anything and see any progress at the federal level, but we are seeing progress at the state and local level.

We are seeing our local communities move towards a plant-based by default policy and offering more plant-based options. We are seeing states begin to introduce bills and pass bills that provide more access to plant-based food in schools. Um, in Washington state, in the 2022 through 2025 school years, they had some, uh, pilot grant funding for plant-based meal initiatives.

It was a small pocket of funding, but it was definitely a, a step in the right direction and a way for schools to kind of explore what it might look like for them to offer more plant-based options to their students and just get like a sense of where the interest is from their students as well. Um, also another bill that has popped up in the last legislative session and will likely, um, continue in this coming year is in Massachusetts. There's The New Bean deal, which would provide more access to plant-based foods in larger institutions. Um, so just, there's a lot happening and there's a lot we're still learning as we go, but it's definitely clear that we need more equitable access to plant-based foods and we need to make plant-based foods more of the norm for the everyday person who likes those convenient choices.

Mariann Sullivan: I mean, I just feel like this is a real sign of, of the development of the whole movement. There's been so many years just like, like all of your experiences, just people individually finding out what's happening and turning towards plant-based diets and veganism and, and now we're at the point where, alright, we're not changing the whole world, but asking for options is unbelievably legitimate now. I mean, there's lots of people who wanna eat this way for lots of different reasons. It's uh, it's such a powerful argument. It's so exciting to see this going. These kinds of bills going on everywhere 'cause so much of the policy works that gets proposed in the animal protection movement, you know, it sounds great, but it's never gonna happen.

This sounds like it's really gonna happen. Like who's gonna say no to options? Like if you wanna eat plants, you should be allowed to. That's not that radical a statement.

Jodi Gruhn: Of the things we find is like when we talk to parents or ask people to sign an endorsement, they said, don't you have that already? Don't we already have that? Like, they're so confused, like,

Mariann Sullivan: I can imagine that they would think that so crazy. Like

Jodi Gruhn: So many parents, so many, I mean, it, they, they just can't believe that there is no option because they think of it.

They, it has been normalized. We, we say plant-based, we say vegan. We, those are not words that are not, just not, they're, they're part of like everyday language now, you know.

Mariann Sullivan: And I think that most people, um, I, I could be wrong about this, but I think most people think that it's completely normal to eat a plant-based meal. And they'll do it once in a while. Like they're not vegan, they don't have that mindset. But eating a meal that's totally made of plants is a totally normal thing to do, where that did not used to be the case.

Jodi Gruhn: Sometimes people even think it's cool.

Judy Wolf: I, I also think it de, it depends on, on what community you're in, because that's one of our concerns is that, um, not everybody understands when it comes to lunch that they can request soy milk through their doctor. First of all, that's a hurdle to get a doctor's note.

Mariann Sullivan: hurdle. It's

Judy Wolf: It's an insane hurdle, but there are huge populations that have no idea that they even have that option.

And so that's part of our whole, of our initiative is to say, Hey, you do have that option. Because it's not advertised. Schools are not allowed to advertise it. It's kind of, you know, it's, um, information that only a few have. And so options are great as long as people know they have them.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. So the o the idea of presenting options is powerful both for the policymakers, but also for for the, for the kids or for the, for the, uh, consumers that they, just knowing that you have an option is, uh, and that's not pushing anybody. It's not like saying you have to be vegan or you're a monster... though you do or you are, but I digress... um. But it's, you know, like you have that option. It's very, uh, it's a great messaging.

Jasmin Singer: Oh my God. Uh, alright, well, uh, on that note, as we start to close up, I would just love to go around and, uh, uh, uh, ask you all for just a, a brief glimpse into what you're hopeful about. We're, you know, ending this year looking ahead. What, what jazzes you up? Uh, so we'll start with Judy.

Judy Wolf: Oh goodness. I was, I was hoping you would start with somebody else.

Jasmin Singer: I was going like ju and I wasn't sure where it was gonna end, but

Judy Wolf: out, Judy.

Jasmin Singer: Honestly it could be like sleeping late on January 1st, I don't care. But what.

Judy Wolf: take that. I'll take sleeping late on January 1st, but I, I actually, I'm jazzed, I love hearing about the work that Jodi is doing and talking about, and I love hearing more of the detail from Brenna. I did not know about this plant powered school meals pilot act. Those things are exciting because again, we talked about how plant-based eating, it's kind of a corollary to animal protection and welfare, but the more people we can get to eat plant-based, the more we are moving towards that animal protection, animal welfare initiative that really is at the heart of all of this.

So I find that very exciting. In addition to sleeping in on January 1st.

Jasmin Singer: Amazing, Jody?

Jodi Gruhn: Well, I'm excited because our bills are actually gonna be heard. We've gotten a, at least in the Senate, um, we've gotten confirmation that our bill author wants to hear it and is gonna, so for me that's really exciting. Also, I think what's exciting is to like, kind of understand how these things start. It starts with just a single person. And I think that anybody listening, I think it's important to recognize the power that you actually do have. Legislators don't hear from us very often, and here in Minnesota, this was not started by me, this was started by a mom who wanted a plant-based option for her kids, and she had been trying through preschool, their kid get to elementary school.

Then she has a second kid, you know, and she, she just wanted this for them. And then as her kids, she got it in her school, she wanted it for other people and she knew that she had the resources and the ability to go to the capitol every day, unpaid she's not a lobbyist, but to learn and all of that. Um, and she wanted to do it for other families, just like you're talking about, you know, this being a justice issue and a health issue and a disparity issue. There's not a lot of people that can go to the capitol every day and lobby for a plant-based milk option or a plant-based school lunch option, and she was able to do that, and that started with one person. Then other others of us saw what she was doing and then we came and we became kind of part of the group and we all started working together to make this happen. So for me it's like, it's, it's that excitement of knowing like, who's out there. There's so many of us out there that have a spark and something inside of us that we wanna ignite and that we're all over. And it just takes just that little bit of confidence to just go and do it. And I think we're seeing more and more of that happening in our movement and I'm just really, really excited about that.

Jasmin Singer: And both, both for you, uh, and Judy, and then we'll, we'll get to you, Brenna. But how, how can people find out more about your efforts and support them?

Jodi Gruhn: We're WholesomeMinnesota.org. Um, but we, they can go to, um, exploreveg.org and that's kind of where more information is kind of about the things that we've been up to. Um, again, I'm a program of Compassionate Action for Animals.

Judy Wolf: You can go to our website, apnm.org and you can see all of our other initiatives, including our plant-based initiative, and you will find the Dairy Brief located in both English and Spanish under the plant-based eating, um, webpage.

Mariann Sullivan: And, and Brenna, did you like, can you go into the Plant Powered School Meals Coalition with more detail?

Before you and, and also tell us what you're hoping for and anything else you wanna talk about.

Branna Anderst: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so the Plant Powered School Meals Coalition, um, that is a broad coalition that is working to advance access, equitable access to plant-based options in schools at the federal level, as well as, uh, working on some state level initiatives. It's primarily being led by Friends of the Earth, but the Humane League is a member of that coalition along with a number of other

of our APA members. And yeah, the, the bill that was recently introduced is the Plant Powered School Meals Pilot Act. It was introduced in the house and um, you can actually find more about, uh, the coalition as well as get like one pagers and an overview of this new bill if you go to plantpoweredschoolmeals.com.

Um, and so there's a bunch of stuff there. Um, as well as like if any organization wants to join that coalition, there's uh, ways to join on there as well. Really exciting.

Mariann Sullivan: Tell us what you're hoping for.

Branna Anderst: Um, and in terms of what I'm hoping for, I mean, being in my position at The Humane League and being in a supportive role for the Animal Policy Alliance, I am just in the, the best position ever because I get to celebrate the amazing wins that are achieved by The Humane League, by the organization that I work for. But I also get to celebrate and be part of all these wins that are being achieved by our APA members. And going into 2026, we're gonna be starting a new legislative session for many of our APA members. And so there's a lot of really exciting work that is just starting as well as work that is continuing to happen into this next year. And I am just very happy and excited to be part of it and see all these wins realized, uh, with our APA members.

Mariann Sullivan: That's great. That is a great, a very enviable position to be in. You can kind of take credit for everything, Brenna.

Branna Anderst: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: All right.

That's great. I'm glad everybody has all these, uh, things to be thankful for. I think that ties us up for today. I just wanna mention before we go if you'll just give me a moment to focus on Our Hen House. It is our end of year fundraiser and it's really important to us.

This is when we raise all of the money for our year pretty much. I know the times are tough right now and kind of scary, so if it's not possible, I totally understand that. But if it is, we're in this amazing situation right now that we have a triple match for any of our listener donations between now and the end of the year.

So if you are able to, that would be really fabulous. Just go to ourhenhouse.org/support.

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