The Hen Report: “ Let’s Be Even Louder Than Before” | Animal Rights Media, Fur Ban Victory, Vegan Activism

though it's about to,

Mariann Sullivan: And, and Santa

Jasmin Singer: I, I put up the, uh, a full lights because otherwise you couldn't see the menorah and I wanted to represent, have.

Mariann Sullivan: has, has Hanukkah hasn't started, has it?

Jasmin Singer: Starting the 14th or the 15th. I don't remember the 14th or 15th.

Mariann Sullivan: That's always confusing for you Jews, is like, you know, the day, the night.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. We also have a, a lovely Christmas tree. You know, we do it all. We if, if there's some

Mariann Sullivan: Christmahanakwanzika

Jasmin Singer: Christmahanakwanzasolistika

Mariann Sullivan:  Christmahanakwanzasolistika

Jasmin Singer: I know I do this every year. Our regular listeners are gonna be like, oh God, again. But years ago, remember I did like a workshop on kind of veganizing the holidays and, and, and I did it with Marisa Miller Wolfson, and I sang a song.

Mariann Sullivan: Million years ago

Jasmin Singer: I sang a song that I made up that went, um, latkes, latkes, latkes, you made them out of oppression and since I cannot eat them, I go into a depression. Which then obviously we, we then did a vegan, uh, recipe for it.

Mariann Sullivan: Right.

Jasmin Singer: It's my big songwriting hit.

Mariann Sullivan: Still one of your tops.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I mean, very indeed. I did write a song when I was very little after my mom's car got like just slightly hit by a truck.

When the truck was turning, I wrote a song about it. It went, um, it went, Hey, truck driver, how dare you? How dare you mess with my tire? Hey truck driver, how dare you. It could have caught on fire. Well, listen, lady, you're lucky it could have caught on fire. That was my second.

Mariann Sullivan: I cannot believe I've never heard that before, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard that before.

Jasmin Singer: There you go. Yeah. I missed my calling.

Mariann Sullivan: The depths of Jasmin Singer. They, you never plumb the depths. Alright. Are we gonna talk about like we, we have to, we're supposed to start off with the reminders.

Rising Anxieties Tuesday.

Somebody just told me that Rising Anxieties was their favorite.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I mean, that's no surprise. It's everyone's favorite. It should be.

Mariann Sullivan: I think it gets the, I gets, it gets the least views on YouTube.

Jasmin Singer: Well that's stupid 'cause it's the best.

Mariann Sullivan: The Hen Report, which is this, on Thursdays and the long form interview on Fridays and bonus for flock members on Mondays. We just interviewed somebody, or I just interviewed somebody who had no idea we were on YouTube, which kind of reveals that they're not paying attention.

Jasmin Singer: Well, or that they're listening to.

Mariann Sullivan: On YouTube in addition to being podcasts. And just remember, subscribe, hit like all that stuff.

Jasmin Singer: Yes, and thank you for that.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, I think that we have one thing that we're not gonna just talk about this, but it is, it is the thing that dominates your life and has come to dominate mine and everyone who knows you, and that's the your show opened. For those of you who have been listening, you will know what we're talking about.

For those of you who haven't, Jasmin, why don't you like tell them what the show is? It doesn't have anything to do with animals.

Jasmin Singer: I have some vegan related stories.

Mariann Sullivan: You came up, you came up with a connection.

Jasmin Singer: I didn't come up with it, it's been on my mind. But yeah, I came up with it. Uh, I, it's called End of the Rainbow, and it's a, it's a play that's being performed here in Rochester at this theater called, uh, the Heart Theater, which is run by the JCC. The theater company is Center Stage.

Mariann Sullivan: I think when you say it's the JCC, it sounds like, you know, it's amateur. It's, it's a legit professional theater.

Jasmin Singer: And it's, it's about Judy Garland and I get to play Judy Garland. And, um, that's hence all of the 5,000 Judy Garland records behind me. In, in the YouTube, if you're watching this, you could see that, uh, and this.

Mariann Sullivan: I was mentioning to people when we were watching, when, when we went to see it, that, um, I was so jealous of you because all I think about other than animals, which is frequently not that cheerful, is, you know, what's happening to our country and the disaster that we're living through. And for a few, like for a couple of months, you got to be completely obsessed by something else.

Not that you've been ignoring the political situation, but you did have... It was very convenient having this obsession.

Jasmin Singer: I sent my best friend Erica a note yesterday that said I decided to relax and read the paper, and right now I'm reading an article called The Pacific Northwest could be rocked by a mega earthquake any day now, a quake that will generate a devastating tsunami. But is America ready for the big one? So that's how I relax.

Uh, yeah. No, it has been a joy and all consuming all year to be in this, in this moment now. And here we are, and I can, I can hardly believe it.

Mariann Sullivan: it opened and I went to opening night

Jasmin Singer: Thank you.

Mariann Sullivan: Uh, and, and I had seen this play on Broadway. I did not like it.

Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: And. Your perform. I, I'm just, I'm just gonna say this and people know I'm not the kind of person to, to uh, be nice. You know, that, and it was unbelievable. You were extraordinary. I have not stopped thinking about that place since I saw it.

And, you know, I'm sure a little of that is because of, you know, I know you and everything. I don't think much of any of it was, I think that was almost a distraction. You are a very very good actor

Jasmin Singer: Thank you.

Mariann Sullivan: And your singing was good too.

Jasmin Singer: Thank you. That's what I worked the hardest on.

Mariann Sullivan: you're

Jasmin Singer: I know who's Judy Garland, but Judy Garland? I'm not. I'm not offended.

Mariann Sullivan: That's, you know, that that's the, that's the standard for this show is to be Judy Garland and nobody can quite pull that off.

But it, it was, I think every, everybody listening should, should make, make plans, come to Rochester. It's, it's running for two

Jasmin Singer: Two more weekends

Mariann Sullivan: So, so you wanna do it fast

Jasmin Singer: Actually. I would love it if,

Mariann Sullivan: and see,

Jasmin Singer: I would love it if people came, I mean.

Mariann Sullivan: End of the Rainbow. 'cause it's so moving.

Jasmin Singer: Thank you so much. I

Mariann Sullivan: You know, it's about Judy Garland and a lot of people really care about Judy Garland per se, but it's also about, it's just about the human condition and about fragility and about exploitation

Jasmin Singer: mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: and about good humor and, and how being funny can carry you through things.

And how...and courage and fear, it's, it was, there was so much in it.

Jasmin Singer: Thank you. And if people can come, I can't say for sure, but I would do my best to get like a coffee with you. I mean, I can't, like if you're a listener and, and you're able to come, I will, I will do my absolute best.

Mariann Sullivan: We do have an airport in Rochester. People are surprised to hear that. I don't support flying, but you know what?

Jasmin Singer: And we have Amtrak.

Mariann Sullivan: We have Amtrak.

We're a little far north, which explains why it's 4

Jasmin Singer: And it's fucking cold.

Mariann Sullivan: fucking degrees.

Jasmin Singer: It's disgusting.

Mariann Sullivan: It was four degrees,

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: It's, it's not even winter yet. This is the people who live here are like, oh yeah, it's what Rochester is like, no.

Jasmin Singer: It's not, yeah, it's not. My mom came from Vermont to see the show and she's like, it's so fucking cold here. I have to go to Vermont and warm up. Um, okay, so I wanted to tell you a couple things. One is that, uh, you know, I think I've mentioned before that my costumes, which were all made for me and are

Mariann Sullivan: Beautiful.

Jasmin Singer: gorgeous. Uh, they're all, they were all made vegan for me. Uh, and so otherwise they wouldn't have been, they would've definitely used feathers for sure. Um, I don't,

Mariann Sullivan: wore, she did use a lot of feathers. I associate that with her.

Jasmin Singer: She did wear fur also. I don't know if they would've used anything like that. They do have old furs up in the like costume area, so it's possible.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, of you could always use faux fur too.

Jasmin Singer: But, but if I hadn't discussed it and said, look, I really am uncomfortable. I don't wanna use animal products. They made this unbelievable gown for me. And it's like a regular dress becomes a gown during the costume change. And one of the things they do is they put these poppies, uh, on my wrists and, um, they put this like bottom of a gown on a dress I'm already wearing with poppies all over it.

And the poppies are made of, I guess, crinoline or something. And it is the most beautiful dress I've ever seen. And it's just like, I just love that there's this like vegan ethic they made sure all of the, I'm in makeup for at least an hour just for covering my tattoos and all of the makeup they use on me is vegan and cruelty free.

Like they all made sure of it. Yeah, it's just been amazing. And then the other thing I wanted to tell you is there's this little part in the play where I'm talking to one of the characters and uh, Anthony is his name. And he says, he's talking about what he could cook for me. And he says, do you like shepherd's pie?

And I say, oh, I love shepherd's pie. And then, and then I say, oh, and what's that thing with the frogs and the sausages? And he is like, oh, toad in the hole. Oh, I can make that. And I say, will you show me? So anyway, this actor is, uh, putting the ca cast party together and, and he was texting me and he wanted vegan recipes for Shepherd's Pie.

So I'm like sending him vegan recipes. Then, and then, and then he said something about toad in the hole. And I like quickly Google vegan toad in the hole. And of obviously things come up and I send it to him and I'm like, I just want you to know there's a vegan version of everything. And so I think he's gonna make that too.

Mariann Sullivan: What? What? I mean, I've had shepherd's pie. I've heard the expression toad in the hole.

I don't have any idea what's in it, and it sounds horrifying.

Jasmin Singer: yeah, it, um,

Mariann Sullivan: I assume it doesn't have anything to do with toads.

Jasmin Singer: According to Google, which I have open right now, there can be edible frog legs in it, but never toads, which are generally poisonous. Okay, well they're all fucking sentient, but I digress. Um, it's sausages baked into a large puffy Yorkshire pudding, basically.

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, all of a sudden it's sounding really good.

Jasmin Singer: Well, the vegan version sure.

Mariann Sullivan: Assuming it's vegan. Yeah. Well, obviously,

Jasmin Singer: I know. Uh.

Mariann Sullivan: I mean, but there's no reason anything you just said couldn't be vegan

Jasmin Singer: No reason anything can't be.

Mariann Sullivan: And

Jasmin Singer: sure.

Mariann Sullivan: Like,

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: I want it

Jasmin Singer: And what, by the way, when I was looking up the shepherd's pie recipes,

Mariann Sullivan: leftovers at the party, pack them up.

Jasmin Singer: You can come to the party, you're invited to the party.

Mariann Sullivan: I don't want to go to the party.

Jasmin Singer: You don't have to come to the party. Um, the, but, uh, when I was Googling the recipes for shepherd's pie, of course, I don't know, like I, I, I don't know what's a good recipe and what's not.

I don't cook. But I, I did find a few like of uh, websites I've heard of, and I'm like, okay, I know Minimalist Baker is good. I know Nora Cooks is good. So I like sent some of those. There are like lentil, whole foody versions of the Shepherd's Pie, and then there's like Beyond Meat Versions. And The Beyond Meat version has like vegan worcestershire.

I can't say it. worcestershire. Can you say it?

Mariann Sullivan: I have some vegan worcestershire sauce.

Jasmin Singer: You do.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah,

Jasmin Singer: Okay. Well, I I'll tell

Mariann Sullivan: I, for some reason, I, I ordered, it was a pair and I ordered both of them. I don't

Jasmin Singer: Oh, I'd love to.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I can give you,

Jasmin Singer: That would be amazing because I told Daniel,

Mariann Sullivan: Have to say, I, I've never wanted shepherd's pie because I was one of those kids who didn't like it if her mashed potatoes touched her peas or her,

Jasmin Singer: That's so cute.

Mariann Sullivan: should excuse the expression, dead animal. Um, you know, I, I like to keep them separate. Having, having things in your mashed potatoes? No, sorry. Not for me.

Jasmin Singer: What, what do you put in and then your vegan mash? Do you put butter or gravy or butter and gravy?

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, butter. If I've got, I don't, I don't make mashed potatoes a whole lot, but yeah. If I'm gonna make 'em, they're gonna have butter in them,

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Well, on Thanksgiving we had vegan mash and I, you know, I don't like gravy in it.

Mariann Sullivan: That that would be, um,

Jasmin Singer: I just want,

Mariann Sullivan: I would have mashed potatoes.

Jasmin Singer: Want butter and, uh, and salt. That's it. I'm a purist. Um,

Mariann Sullivan: I had such a virtuous breakfast this morning. I had, I had oat groats and strawberries, a little bit of milk, and then afterwards I was hungry, so I had a Beyond sausage.

Jasmin Singer: That's good. That sounds good. I've been enjoying the Trader Joe's, uh, vegan Italian sausages. They're very good. Really good.

Mariann Sullivan: I never go to Trader Joe's. It's too far away.

Jasmin Singer: By the way. Okay, so I need to change the subject and tell you something. Uh, so a few weeks ago, Vicki was on Our Hen House reviewing Kendra Coulter's The Tortoise's Tale, which is a new novel. And so, and then I, I got it from the library, uh, and I ordered one so that I could support her, and I'm listening to the audio book from the library.

I love it.

Mariann Sullivan: Oh, all right.

Jasmin Singer: Today I just want you to know that today

Mariann Sullivan: I have a copy and I haven't read it yet, but

Jasmin Singer: I have two, two things to say about this. One is today the tortoise is talking about like the tortoise witnessed, witnessed a death and is talking about how like death has been around her. Certainly because she has seen people like eat like animals that used to be alive or something.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, 'cause as Vicki pointed out, it, it tracks her whole life, which is very, very long.

Jasmin Singer: Right, exactly. Um, so I wanted to say it was just a nice vegan moment. The other thing I wanted to say is that Moore and I were at the barber yesterday, and our barber used to have a rescued tortoise who passed away after a very long life, not that long ago. And so I was telling her about, uh, the book and then I just, she, she said she has a Kindle, so I like ordered, I ordered it for her.

I hope she, she reads it, but it's just really sweet and I feel like it's great for this time of year. Do you remember that book we read that one of our listeners told us about, about the mouse and the, um, the friendship?

Mariann Sullivan: That

Jasmin Singer: do you remember that?

Mariann Sullivan: Sis...

Jasmin Singer: Book about mouse...

Mariann Sullivan: Sipsworth?

Jasmin Singer: Sipsworth! Wow. Mariann. I'm impressed by you.

Mariann Sullivan: And I, I can't remember like,

Jasmin Singer: S Yeah. Was it by, by, uh, is that right? By. No, that, that's not the author Simon Van Bowie, I guess that is the author.

Mariann Sullivan: Sounds like

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Okay. Um, well anyway, that, that felt very warm and wintery and Christmasy for some reason. So does this.

Mariann Sullivan: Was, Christmas was in that book.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. And this book,

Mariann Sullivan: Christmas book. I had sort of forgotten that it was Christmasy.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. So I, this is another Christmasy book. Anyway, just wanted to say.

Mariann Sullivan: All right.

Jasmin Singer: It's a great book. What else do we have to say?

Mariann Sullivan: We do have things we need to talk about, and one of them is like the worst news, like we just have to get it out of the way even though you've already heard it.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Uh, but we just missed reporting on it last week, so we're reporting on it this week, even though you've heard it. And that's that Zoe Rosenberg is going jail and, and it's just devastating.

And, and this is her quote on it... she's, she was sentenced in 90 days and she can't apply for alternative to incarceration, um, which could be house arrest, until 30 days are up. So hopefully she will only have to do 30 days in prison. But that's very unclear at this point. There are also other things she has to pay a hundred thousand dollars to fucking Purdue.

Jasmin Singer: She gonna be in debt for the rest of her life for that? I mean, can she raise the money to do that? Do you know?

Mariann Sullivan: I would assume so, like.

Jasmin Singer: I mean, I don't know how you deal with something like that.

Mariann Sullivan: I don't know what's going on with that, but we will probably hear. Um, and, and also, you know, there's these two year she has to stay away from, from, um, the Sonoma slaughterhouse where she was arrested and, and, and she has to not affiliate with the people she was affiliated with, which of course, are her companions or friends are co co activists.

But, uh, her, this is her quote on Instagram. I'll be turning myself in to begin my jail sentence tomorrow evening. This was, you know, two days ago. My request to all of you is to keep speaking up for the animals as loudly as you can. This prosecution, conviction, and sentence has been about deterrence, about silencing people who might speak up for animals suffering at the hands of agribusiness giants like Purdue. So let's be even louder than before.

There you go.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, she's, she's, she's doing amazing. She's leveraging this in the absolute best way one possibly could at this, at this worst moment of her life. And of course she has a dis,

Mariann Sullivan: She's not, well. I mean,

Jasmin Singer: Right.

Mariann Sullivan: Person, so, so just fingers crossed about her health.

Jasmin Singer: That they. it's it's a vulnerable,

Mariann Sullivan: mean, I guess that's bad news, but it's inspiring bad news, I have to say. The other piece of bad news I have is just fucking bad news.

This is about the bailout, the farmer bailout. You might've heard of it. So we're all chipping in. All of us, you know, poor people and, well, not the rich people, they're not chipping in. But the rest of us who pay taxes are all chipping in and se sending $12 billion to farmers because of Trump's tariffs.

So we have to pay the tariffs. And then because China is mad at us, uh, the farmers aren't selling any of their products, so we have to pay the farmers. That's how this country works, apparently. But the thing that is particularly galling about it is that, as Civil Eats points out, um, the bailout primarily benefits commodity farms. And, uh, we're not talking about, you know, orange groves, we're talking about corn, soybeans, wheat, sorghum, and cotton. And, uh, though cotton is not used to feed animals, I think all of those other things are. They're also used for humans, uh, you know, but, but the vast majority. Oh, and, and livestock themselves, beef specifically.

So those are the people we're sending our money too.

Jasmin Singer: Wow.

Mariann Sullivan: You know,

Jasmin Singer: Awful.

Mariann Sullivan: Christmas, but we have, we all have plenty to spare all the people who pay taxes in this country, which as I pointed out, does not include rich people. Ah!

Jasmin Singer: Oh my God.

Mariann Sullivan: All right, let's move on from that 'cause that's just annoying. And the next thing is like, kind of unbelievable news for those of us who have been doing this for a long time.

Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.

Mariann Sullivan: Um, 'cause you know, sometimes you don't notice when things change. I remember it just, this just popped into my, my head. Do you remember that show The Jeffersons? Uh, moving on up to the East side!

And it was about, uh, an African American family that, uh, made it big and, and, and became rich and they had a maid, um, and, and it must've been a very early episode. Her name was Florida, I think. If I'm thinking of the right show. Um, and it, it, when she was being hired, she came to interview and she was shocked to find out that her, her perspective employers were African American. And she said, when did we overcome and nobody told me!?

And I feel like that about this article. Like, like this is exciting. So this is, um, Hearst Magazine's Bans fur from its publications, and this is following, um, Conde Nast's fur ban in October. And, and we're talking about Harper's Bazaar, Elle, which is already fur free, so to be fair, Esquire, Seventeen, and Cosmopolitan, they're all not advertising fur anymore. And, uh, this

Jasmin Singer: Wow.

Mariann Sullivan: Well, it's kind of funny because this article that I'm reading, which is, you know, from an Industry Insider article, um, is, uh. It says, Hearst Magazine's ban follows a five day protest campaign against the media company by grassroots organization, the Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade.

Yeah. Five day protest campaign, and 25 years of unending work by both the folks in Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, which I remember from way back when has been doing this for... and so many other organizations have been fighting for this for years. But after this five day protest campaign, they just said, oh yeah, okay, we won't advertise fur anymore.

And includes both, um, advertising and editorial content. Um, no promotion of fur whatsoever. And, uh, how about that?

Jasmin Singer: Wow.

Mariann Sullivan: The other thing is, is that just a week before, um, the Council of Fashion Designers of America announced that it would ban fur from New York Fashion Week and New York Fashion Week is a big deal. Not to just be a, not to just be a New Yorker or anything, but it is, it's a big deal. It's a central event for fashion.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. In fact, when I emceed the Goodwill Gala up here this year, uh, it was during New York Fashion Week and they just kept talking about New York Fashion Week and, and some of the trends. Yeah, it, it, it, it starts there and it just spreads, it's, it's wings to everywhere else. And that's, so that's huge. I, this reminds me of like a week or two ago.

I, I, I, I mean I know that like paging doctor obvious, but I did say things changed. And like, even, even since Our Hen House started and you, you know, I mentioned you used to go to those fur protests every week for a really long time down in, down in the city. And, uh, and, and things really changed as far as fur goes.

It's, it's just on the, people know it's bad. In fact, I see celebrities, if they have like a vintage fur or something that they're showing, they'll always be like, sorry, like, which isn't cute. I mean like get, don't use it if you have to say sorry, but there is still like a really nice rising anxieties moment in their apology, right?

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. No, it's, it, it's amazing news and it's just such a, we, when you've been doing this for a long time. I think I just said this, but I'm gonna say it again. You have to keep up 'cause sometimes things happen, sometimes we're getting somewhere and things are progressing and you can be like, you know, stuck in the past.

That can happen to me, that's for sure.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: Her name was Florence. And I feel a little, I, I do feel a little embarrassed because there was another African American character whose name was Florida, I'm pretty sure. And I, you know, I hate it if I mix up people who are African American, but come on Florida and Florence, you know.

Jasmin Singer: I mean, it's, it's okay.

Mariann Sullivan: It was 40 years ago or something.

Jasmin Singer: Honestly, the fact that you even pulled that like scene from a show out of your brain.

Mariann Sullivan: It's kind of a miracle.

Jasmin Singer: It really is. It really is. I just read this book called, um, Moonwalking with Einstein, and it was by, uh, Joshua Foer, who's Jonathan Saffron Foer's brother. And it's about memorization and memories just in general.

And it's, I think you should read it. It's really fascinating 'cause like you just brought up.

Mariann Sullivan: Help improve my memory?

Jasmin Singer: Sure. It will. Absolutely. It talks about techniques.

Mariann Sullivan: If I remember to, to look for it. I'll,

Jasmin Singer: There is a, I mean, the fact that you even brought up that book Sipsworth, like, it's really interesting. It mental athleticism is, is is a, an acquired skill. It's not necessarily something that you have or you don't like. Case in point, my play.

Mariann Sullivan: Say that, that you can, that you know as you age, there are certain things that you should do, like crossword puzzles and like that, that help exercise your brain.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. My play. I mean, it's like, I don't know if it's taken up

Mariann Sullivan: I don't

Jasmin Singer: my brain space.

Mariann Sullivan: that. You, you like. Jasmin was on stage like for the entire play, and it was, it was insane.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it, I mean,

Mariann Sullivan: So many lines to remember.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it was, it was truly bananas. Like, but I'm just, does that take up extra space in my brain and so I can't do other things? Or does, am I just using my brain better? I don't know. I don't know.

Mariann Sullivan: I, I don't think we should think of our brains as a finite resource. That's waylays alot. What Trump thinks, right?

Jasmin Singer: Ugh.

Mariann Sullivan: Not his brain, but exercise. He, he doesn't believe in exercise because, because he believes you have a finite amount of energy and, and you use it all up. Something like that.

Jasmin Singer: So weird that that makes me,

Mariann Sullivan: I'm not swearing to that, but it's something like that.

Jasmin Singer: Well, it's like thinking of compassion or love as finite. It's not.

Mariann Sullivan: That's, that's a classic example.

Jasmin Singer: Right. I'm sorry I can't let you into my life.

Mariann Sullivan: you have the more you have

Jasmin Singer: Right, exactly. It's bananas. Alright, so, uh, I feel like, I feel like we're, I feel like we're good and we should just talk about briefly the end of year, which is what we're in right now.

Mariann Sullivan: I wanna, I have

Jasmin Singer: Oh, you have something else? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. Go ahead, please.

Mariann Sullivan: No, it's a, it's a new book and it is edited. It's a very long book. Uh, it is about animal law and it is edited by our dear friend and brilliant lawyer, Joan Schaffner, who teaches at GW. Uh, it's called the Elgar Concise. It's really not that concise, Elgar Concise Encyclopedia of Animal Law.

It has like, uh, 135 contributors. Extraordinary. And I, you know, I'm just gonna run down the table of contents and grab a few without even looking to see what they are. Alright. Animals used in research in the EU and international law. Oh, that's by Alice Di Concetto. I love her. Um, Breeding of Animals for Pets and Research in the US. That's by Joan herself. Um, Compassionate Conservation by Daniel Ramp and Madden e Solomon. Um, Environmental Ethics by Reed Elizabeth Loder. As you can see, it just covers this huge wide range with various different experts. It's really an important contribution. It is expensive. I mean, it's obviously a reference work and it's $315, but, oh, that's for members of, I guess it's, but if you go to Edward Elgar Publishing, but, but apparently there's an ebook that individuals can buy, not libraries.

That is, it says from $65. So still very expensive, but, you know, I just wanted to mention that in case you are in the market, but if not, uh, you know, you could always recommend it for a library. And it sounds fascinating.

Jasmin Singer: It sounds amazing.

Mariann Sullivan: What an extraordinary amount of work this must to been. I

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Wow. And Joan is just.

Mariann Sullivan: bringing together 135 writers and managing to get them to write and, and produce something good and, and have them all be different and.

Jasmin Singer: That's amazing. Oh, so amazing. We, we will link to that in the show notes as well as the other articles that we've talked about today. And for those of you who are, uh, thinking about where to donate, since it is end of year, I do wanna remind you that Our Hen House is a nonprofit. And you know, I know it's a little offbeat that we are a nonprofit that produces animal rights media, but uh, you know, some of your favorite media...

Mariann Sullivan: Why is it offbeat?

Jasmin Singer: Well, it's not necessarily where people.

Mariann Sullivan: On beat.

Jasmin Singer: It's on beat. Okay. I meant it's not necessarily, people tend to think of the bigger organizations or sanctuaries, and I think they should donate to them too.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Uh, I just, some of the best media I think is created by nonprofits and I'm very proud that we are reaching 16 years of doing Our Hen House. Uh, we were just born both of us when we started it and now we're 16.

Um, but it.

Mariann Sullivan: I mean, I've been thinking more and more about the importance of independent media, not just Our Hen House. Um, but you know, nobody's doing... the, the big outfits are either compromised, like CBS is now, by the administration or they're just not really doing, um, investigative reporting. And I mean outfits like, you know, it's, we don't do investigative reporting.

I'm not going to pretend that's true, but I just think that not-for-profits, we do report on the news and use other sources to find that. So I think that's a really important part of it. And nonprofits are, are the places that are doing the important uncovering of what's going on, especially when it comes to animals.

'Cause as we all know, mainstream media just, you know, doesn't pay attention. I mean, think of the work that, uh, Vox is doing. Really

Jasmin Singer: Uh, incredible work.

Mariann Sullivan: that nobody else is covering.

Jasmin Singer: A hundred plus,

Mariann Sullivan: Sentient Media for that matter

Jasmin Singer: Right? Exactly. I mean, the, the,

Mariann Sullivan: Tho Vox is a mainstream outlet that covers lot of different things. And Sentient Media is pretty focused on agriculture.

Jasmin Singer: There's certainly a big overlap with our listeners and NPR, uh, which is of course in a lot of financial trouble right now. But where would we be without NPR or PBS in our, in our world? And where would we be without Our Hen House? I don't even wanna know. Uh, we have so many episodes. This is the 880th episode of Our Hen House, uh, that, and that's not even counting the Animal Law podcast.

So in total, we've put together. I, I'm doing the quick math and it's more than a thousand episodes. I mean, if you count the Animal Law podcasts and so.

Mariann Sullivan: I do count the Animal Law Podcast.

Jasmin Singer: Of course, you know what I mean? Uh, and so if you're not already part of our flock community, please join us as a member. We have options starting at $10 a month or a hundred dollars a year.

There are some cute perks that come with it. You get to join us once a month for a live interview. You could ask questions to the, to the host, uh... well to the host, that's us. But I meant to the interview subject. You also get bonus content every week. So if you want even more Our Hen House in your email each week, go to ourhenhouse.org/support.

We'd love it if you can also help spread the word to others, and between now and the end of the year, every dollar you donate is being tripled. So that makes right now a perfect time to become a flock member or to make a donation of any amount. So thank you for that and thank you for tuning in and we will talk to you next time.