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App not listed? Try this RSS linkThis episode of The Hen Report explores how to navigate a world filled with animal exploitation. Jasmin and Mariann discuss finding balance between ethical living and practical engagement with mainstream culture—from mentally veganizing cooking shows to exploring local towns with a vegan eye. They share encouraging news about Indonesia banning elephant rides and the USDA’s pause on methane digesters that have been falsely promoted as climate solutions for the dairy industry.
This episode explores:
- How vegans can manage to watch mainstream entertainment by mentally “veganizing” non-vegan content
- The USDA’s 90-day pause on funding manure-to-energy digesters, signaling potential scrutiny of these dairy industry climate claims
- Indonesia’s new ban on elephant rides in zoos, though enforcement remains a concern
- Factory Farm Watch’s new interactive map documenting over 1,300 factory farms across California
- Faunalytics’ revealing study on how “voluntary compliance” fails birds at US slaughterhouses
RESOURCES
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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Jasmin Singer: Welcome to The Hen Report. This is Jasmin Singer.
Mariann Sullivan: This is Mariann Sullivan.
Jasmin Singer: Thanks so much for joining us today.
Just a quick reminder, Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays, and the long form interview on Fridays. And bonus for Flock members comes out on Mondays. We're on YouTube, we're also on all of the places where you might listen to podcasts. So hit subscribe and like and comment wherever you listen.
Vicki told me that there have been some really like. Uh, you know, typical internet comments, let's just say. Like, sometimes people will find us on YouTube shorts or something like that and say horrible things and she'll just, if, if people engage with it, then she'll leave it But if some someone just says something horrible, just,
Mariann Sullivan: really vicious
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. she'll delete it. But I was kind of like, Ooh, we've made it.
Mariann Sullivan: Thank God we have Vicki to do this.
Jasmin Singer: I know.
Mariann Sullivan: would, I would have to be hospitalized.
Jasmin Singer: I was so excited though.
Mariann Sullivan: I'm not good at at, at reading. Oh, that we're getting randos.
Jasmin Singer: We're getting randos. I was like, yeah, welcome to Our Hen House. So, uh, this is rando. I, I. I might have mentioned that. Like I've gotten Yeah, I, I have mentioned that I got into like Moore is teaching me how to sew. She's like an expert sewer and I've really been enjoying it.
Mariann Sullivan: That, that makes me really nervous because I don't think of you as someone who's good at operating heavy machinery. But you said it's safe.
Jasmin Singer: I still have most of my fingers intact. Uh, Yeah, It's safe. It's safe. But I was, uh, I was using like vegan leathers and I would like cork, and I was, I actually did get to school, a friend of mine about like piñatex and, and mushroom leather and coffee leathers, so that was a good teaching opportunity. Mostly what I like to do is repurpose things that I find that already exist.
Uh, but I did make someone a wallet recently, and I got sort of stuck in this rabbit hole of like looking at all of these leather patterns because I'm using a, you know, a vegan leather and I, I realize how much I'm looking at leather patterns lately, and it's so weird. I know, and I'll tell you, one of the patterns I saw was for like making animals like a, like a cow and a pig out of leather. And I was like, wow. Yeah, it's gr, it's unbelievable.
Mariann Sullivan: Sick.
Jasmin Singer: But I will tell you that I feel like powerful when I'm looking at it. 'cause I'm like, I'll show You I'm gonna make that, but vegan,
Mariann Sullivan: That'll do it.
Jasmin Singer: That'll save the animals.
Mariann Sullivan: That'll change the world.
Jasmin Singer: It did make me think about how we are constantly having to veganize things in our head, even, you know, even if it's like a, a non-vegan site or pattern or piece of music or whatever. Piece of music I was...
Mariann Sullivan: We do?
Jasmin Singer: Well, I was thinking about, okay, for piece of music, I was thinking about, actually I confused veganism and, and, and like gay things again, 'cause I confuse them sometimes. But like if I'm listening to a love song, I will just change it to like being about two women for example. And I've been doing that for decades, you know,
Mariann Sullivan: it. I mean,
Jasmin Singer: in my head,
Mariann Sullivan: actually change the lyrics. I mean, but, but the, most of the songs would just apply to whoever you love.
Jasmin Singer: right? Sure. But.
Mariann Sullivan: Unless it identifies somebody by gender or sex
Jasmin Singer: or just
Mariann Sullivan: it.
Jasmin Singer: Right. Well, in any case, I, uh, if you look at it from a vegan perspective, it's like I have watched the Great British Bake off. I know you have too.
Mariann Sullivan: yeah. Great British break off. I agree. Why can we watch it? I don't understand how we can watch it, but I'm actually sick of it. I don't watch it anymore, but I did go through a period of watching it a lot and it kind of astounded me that I just allowed myself to go there.
Jasmin Singer: You have to pretend it's vegan though. I mean, I will.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't know whether I do that.
Jasmin Singer: I do.
Mariann Sullivan: Like, I just turn my brain off.
Jasmin Singer: I pretend it's vegan.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't understand the process. I'm sure we do it all the time and don't even notice we're doing it, but that was, in that situation, it was so obvious.
Jasmin Singer: Well,
Mariann Sullivan: I I, just don't think about it, what they're actually using.
Jasmin Singer: I think about how to veganize it in my head and then if something is, I mean, I'm not really a baker or a cook or any or a food person at all.
Mariann Sullivan: I would like be pretty excited if you switched away from sewing and got into baking.
Jasmin Singer: No, you wouldn't.
Mariann Sullivan: extra muffins that you wanted to sh No, I guess it would
Jasmin Singer: You wouldn't. I'm not good enough. I I put like black beans,
Mariann Sullivan: mean that I would be eating too many muffins.
Jasmin Singer: but I also put like black beans and spinach in things when I bake them. And, and
Mariann Sullivan: true.
Jasmin Singer: I, I'm too, I'm not fun. I'm. But, or the other thing is we watch the, I think it's called the British Sewing Bee. We watch it on YouTube.
Mariann Sullivan: Don't know. That sounds like you.
Jasmin Singer: It's another thing that like, they'll have challenges and they'll be like here's a silk challenge or something.
And I'll be, you know, in my head I'm like, okay, You could use this fabric or this fabric, or that fabric or, and I just really feel strongly that I get to enjoy my life too, and I get to just do it through a vegan lens.
Mariann Sullivan: You don't have to defend. It's fine.
Jasmin Singer: I had a friend write to me the other day and say that she wanted to visit Morocco 'cause she was going to be near Morocco.
And she said she didn't know how to handle the fact that there were going to be like snake charmers which is I I have to look it up 'cause I didn't know this
Mariann Sullivan: There are snake charmers still?
Jasmin Singer: Snake charmers are a well-known.
Mariann Sullivan: Snake charmers kind of with India. I guess I have that all completely wrong.
Jasmin Singer: I don't know, honestly, this is like 10 seconds of Googling information, but snake charmers are a well known traditional sight in Morocco. And, um, and so she was like, I don't know how I would handle that. And I said, well, A, I don't really know what you're talking about, but B, like, enjoy your life. Go and if there's a snake charmer, you know, walk past it and go into the vegan restaurant behind it.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, you kind of have to do that every And,
Jasmin Singer: Everywhere. I remember when I
Mariann Sullivan: but I do find traveling to be difficult traveling to, you know, far off places that you don't know well and you're not familiar with, and you really feel like a stranger. And there are forms of animal abuse, I think, in other countries that are more out in the open, we tend to hide our animal abuse behind closed doors and, uh, and pretend that they're not there. And, and, you know, you just, uh, like I, I don't wanna go someplace to be sickened by something. I don't wanna go someplace to be judgmental of people. Like, like, it's hard. It's hard. So I just stay home.
That's my solution.
Jasmin Singer: I don't wanna.
Mariann Sullivan: of, kind of what I wanted to do. And I read a book about Morocco that's so much better.
Jasmin Singer: Honestly, I just feel really grateful. I feel really grateful and unbelievably privileged that like for the first, I don't know, 40 years of my life or something, or mostly in my twenties and thirties, a lot of which was with you, I got to travel quite a lot, and so now I just think, well, I'm feeling slightly agoraphobic these days.
I'm the, the world is terrifying me. I feel much more aware of the climate toll of flying. It's also become extremely expensive to travel. Whereas I think even five, 10 years ago, it wasn't, uh, nearly as expensive. And so I'm glad I got my yayas out. Yeah. But, uh, but the point.
Mariann Sullivan: It's good you don't feel bad about it. I guess some people just really like, I just don't understand it. Like, like it's, it is very expensive and just some people just wanna, I, most people I think, I mean, I think I'm the weird one, that just wanna go places. Just wanna see things
Jasmin Singer: mean,
Mariann Sullivan: before I die.
Jasmin Singer: well, but, but you say this as a person who has seen, but you've seen a lot of places. I'm.
Mariann Sullivan: have seen some things. I mean, but there's plenty of places I haven't seen, and it's not like I want to keep doing it.
Jasmin Singer: But would the,
Mariann Sullivan: at some point.
Jasmin Singer: Bringing it back to the animals, like you mentioned, I.
remember, you know, one, this has happened in lots of places I visited, but one of them that springs to mind is when we went to the very, very beautiful, um, land of Puerto Rico. There's stray animals, stray dogs everywhere, but like, it's not any different than here.
We just throw them in shelters and kill them here.
Mariann Sullivan: No, that was the point I was making before.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. exactly. So I.
Mariann Sullivan: more visible and you know, like if you're going someplace to enjoy yourself, that makes a difference.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Right. But, uh, it,
Mariann Sullivan: It's not more immoral.
than
Jasmin Singer: impact? Does it impact... is that part of why you don't wanna travel at all?
Mariann Sullivan: No,
Jasmin Singer: Okay.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't think so. I mean, I guess it's an ad. I just don't want to, I mean, I, I just don't, I like to stay home. I know. I'm so boring. I would much, I, I also, I'm not a very social person. I don't get to know people easily. I don't strike up conversations easily. If I read a book, a really good book, I love travel books,
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: like nonfiction about travel if they're good.
And I learn so much more about a place doing that than if I just walk around in a place. It's just, don't feel like I really absorb much.
Jasmin Singer: will say that you
Mariann Sullivan: know, it's true. I've been to a lot of places and, but I don't think that's the only thing. I
Jasmin Singer: you love,
Mariann Sullivan: many places.
Jasmin Singer: You love day trips and we, you know, I, we, Moore and I, one of our gifts for you, uh, for Christmas, this past Christmas and the Christmas before it, was like a monthly adventure basically. And so in 2025, we went to like a different local site, you know, like a museum or something every month. And this, this year, it's just like a town nearby Rochester.
Like however, you know, banal the town might.
Mariann Sullivan: Because I mean, and I think it's great because since I haven't lived here that long, you hear about a town and people who grew up here, at some point in their life, they were there or they drove through it, or they had, you know, I don't have that map in my head of what, of what
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: around here looks like.
Jasmin Singer: But I think it's fun from a vegan perspective too. Like last month we went to this tiny little, you know, town called Rush and, uh,
Mariann Sullivan: we went to Lima.
Jasmin Singer: Lima, I always confuse them, Lima as in.
Mariann Sullivan: Next to each.
Jasmin Singer: As in the bean and we found this little cafe and they had a ton of vegan things and like we never would've found that otherwise.
Uh, and so I'm looking forward to.
Mariann Sullivan: We didn't talk about that at all, like?
Jasmin Singer: We did, I think we did
Mariann Sullivan: yeah, it also had a very, very, very, very old hotel. That was so cool.
Jasmin Singer: The American well, We said.
Mariann Sullivan: We didn't get to eat there because they weren't, they had 8 soups, that's all they serve is soups. Very eccentric. And, and they didn't, they didn't know whether one of, they thought one of 'em was vegan, but it wasn't the chef, which wasn't there.
So they weren't sure, so we didn't eat it. But that was really cool.
Jasmin Singer: Right. Well all
Mariann Sullivan: The thing I love discovering weird little things like that. When I'm talking about old, I mean like, it was probably from the well early 1900, no, 18 hundreds, and it's never been renovated. Like it was crazy.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, for sure. But I guess the, the whole point of all this is that like.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, point?
Jasmin Singer: Going, going through life with like a vegan lens can, can, can hinder you when you look at it from the perspective of the animal exploitation that you'll be confronted with. But it can really liberate you when you think about all of the opportunities you can create both in terms of your own experience, but also in spreading the word in these like random.
So it's quite enjoyable.
Mariann Sullivan: You told me we couldn't talk about this 'cause we already talked about it, which is probably true. I just forget. But that's why I have my new, my new plan is to go to restaurants and have no idea what's on the menu and just try to see if I can put together a vegan meal, which I know can be very frustrating, but that's kind of the adventure.
Jasmin Singer: Okay. Well, to each their own, uh, you know, have the adventure and report back. Um, all right. Let's talk about some, some good news.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, well actually I have a couple of good
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I always like that.
Mariann Sullivan: Um, waste to, and this is like the big thing because I've been talking about this like pretty much every, every week. the, the use of manure to, uh, to, to get methane, which then dairy farms can sell. And according to Sentient Media, uh, manure to energy digesters were sold as a climate fix.
They certainly were, especially in California, which is the. California is the centerpiece of this. Um, but now the USDA is hitting pause, a 90 day pause due to loan delinquency, whatever that means, may signal that the viability of anaerobic digesters is being scrutinized at the federal level. I mean, nothing here is certain yet, but they're definitely, um, they are definitely looking at this and they, apparently they, they've already allocated hundreds of millions of dollars towards these ridiculous anaerobic digester projects.
Now they're like thinking, well, you know, maybe not. So let's definitely keep an eye on this. This is a really important story. It's in Sentient Media if you wanna take a look at it. I would love to see this end. This is one of, you know, I talk about this all the time, the how the dairy industry is just trying to come up with, with more ways to make money.
I mean, talked about beef on dairy, uh uh, on Rising Anxieties this week, and this is just another really important piece of their plan. To create methane, create it like it's a fossil fuel, but you could also create it, that is very, very damaging to the climate if you just release it into the air and sell it to people so that they can use it to create energy, which is also very damaging to the climate.
Just not quite as much as if you release it. It's the most insane thing in the world, and I am excited that somebody seems to put a, seemed to have put a spanner in the works. Not clear yet what's gonna happen.
Jasmin Singer: We will keep an eye on it.
Mariann Sullivan: Not a, I'm not terribly hopeful about anything these days. Alright, my other piece of good news is about Indonesia.
Uh, this was all over the internet and I, I, it doesn't seem that big, but apparently, you know, whenever we're talking about, uh, any kind of animal abuse, it may not be that big in the big scheme of things, but it's very big for the animals concerned. It can be a lot of animals. Indonesia has banned elephant rides in zoos, which are apparently a big thing in um, Indonesia.
Jasmin Singer: Hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: Uh, the only, um, the only caveat in this article, which is on Plant-based News, is that they're worried about enforcement. That, uh, you know, how, how it so often happens with animal protection laws that, uh, everybody gets together, does something that sounds good, and then, you know, don't enforce it. But this is great.
This really indicates that, you know, a changing attitude towards elephants
Jasmin Singer: Did you
Mariann Sullivan: If people can't be nice to elephants, like, there's no hope.
Jasmin Singer: Did you have elephant rides when you were a kid, when you were growing up?
Mariann Sullivan: No.
Jasmin Singer: Hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: Never did an elephant ride. No.
Jasmin Singer: I think that I went to the, this, this was a file folder back, back, back in the back of my head. But I think that I was taken to a circus where they let little children ride the elephants. I'm not sure I did it. I, um, but I do remember that it happened and it's just,
Mariann Sullivan: Mean, I heard about it, but I don't know when I heard about it. But that wasn't part of my life. The
only circus
I ever went to, sad to say, was Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey. That was at Madison Square Garden in um, you know, in the middle of the city they did not have elephant rides.
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oy. The things we thought were just normal. Uh,
Mariann Sullivan: God,
Jasmin Singer: What?
Mariann Sullivan: I was thinking of that Paul Simon song. When I look back at all the things I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think it all.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: Ain't that the truth?
Jasmin Singer: Well, when I think back at all the animals I exploited, I'm just so grateful to be vegan.
Uh, speaking of exploiting animals, uh, what is this next story? Uh, from Factory Farm Watch.
Mariann Sullivan: Interesting that I'm very, I mean, I had no idea they were doing this. This is from, um, Direct Action Everywhere. You know what you think of this for direct action, and maybe this is a tool for direct action, but this is just in California, but it's fascinating. They have put together this amazing resource called Factory Farm Watch that that identifies every factory farm in California. That's over 1300. And, uh, and, you know, map them, describe them, talked about what, uh, what animals are there. And, uh,
Jasmin Singer: Wow.
Mariann Sullivan: I think everybody should know about this incredibly useful, useful, uh, resource. And I just, you know, I just didn't realize that they were doing this kind of work, so good for them.
Jasmin Singer: Factoryfarmwatch.org is the website. It really is an incredible resource. Wow. Uh uh, so Faunalytics is such an incredible organization. Yeah. A num
Mariann Sullivan: I love the work that Faunalytics
Jasmin Singer: Me too.
Mariann Sullivan: Um, this is about a study they did and um, the name of the article is Voluntary Compliance Fails Birds at US Slaughterhouses. Well, isn't that a shocker? That, that they would have advice, the government would give advice to how to people who raise birds, uh, for slaughter and, um, tell them that this is what they should do.
And you know, what? They don't. Like because there's no enforcement. The federal, this starts, uh, article, uh, starts out, um, the, the, the summary here is by Megan Cant, and the original study is by, Jones, Strong, and Kelly, um. Uh, basically the federal government allows the poultry industry to essentially police itself leading to widespread animal suffering at slaughter.
Now, we all know, or most of us know, uh, or if you don't know, I'll tell you, um, that birds are not covered, are not considered covered. I think you could make the argument that they have, but it's never worked in court, at least so far. They're not covered by the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, which is the federal law that governs, um, basically the, I mean, it covers some handling and, and other factors, but the big thing is that they're supposed to be unconscious when they're throats are slit.
You know. How demanding these animals are! How, you know, come on. How much do they want from us? Um, and so the, these authors, um, looked into, uh, the, the, the advice basically that the USDA has given to, um, uh, poultry companies.
Jasmin Singer: Hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: They should follow good commercial practices. However, they, there's no enforcement and, you know, who knows what that means anyway, and, uh.
And so they conclude that that, you know, it's obviously completely inadequate and that, this is interesting, the program that was, uh, you know, in which they tried to get people to voluntary comply, was likely created to ease public concern rather than to prevent mistreatment. Uh, yeah, a lot of things, a lot of laws about animals are exactly for that reason.
So, uh, also, won't go on about it, it's depressing. Um, 'cause it, it talks a lot about very severe suffering. Um, but, but if this is an, an issue that you're, you're interested in, you, you really gotta, um, you really gotta see this, this study. And they do have some, uh, some advice for action people can take, which, you know, has, has a lot to do with, with notifying the USDA.
I don't know how, how, um, open they are at the moment to, to doing anything useful. But we don't keep an eye on it, nobody else will.
Jasmin Singer: And while you're there at Faunalytics's website, faunalytics.org just putter around if you have never done that because they really are doing such important work. Uh, for those of you who are intrigued by the world of documentaries, by the way, and have thought about putting your own together, or maybe you have one in the works or you have a folder on your desktop, or maybe you're further along than that.
A quick heads up, this is the best title. Who let the docs out has opened applications for the 2026 Coexistence Documentary Fund, which supports bold cinematic nonfiction that interrogates how modern society uses animals and what that costs animals, people and the planet. The grants are not insubstantial.
They include $8,000 for research, or $4,000 for shorts, and $15,000 for development, a sizzle, or 7,000 for shorts, and the spring cycle deadline is coming up fast on March 16th, uh, 2026
Mariann Sullivan: Even if you're not making a documentary yourself, think about friends and friends and neighbors who might wanna, uh, take advantage.
Jasmin Singer: The website is docsout.org and as always, we will put the link in our show notes. We have a lot of resources that we link to in the show notes, so be sure to check that out. We, we did a interview the other day. When is that airing? Our interview with Paul Watson and Sarah Levy.
Mariann Sullivan: Uh, not this Friday...
Jasmin Singer: yeah. We have some exciting things coming up.
Mariann Sullivan: I think it's in March, like how is February over?
Jasmin Singer: Because it's so... oh my gosh. I saw the funniest meme the other day. It was like, um. A ch challenge, like an internet challenge to not buy craft supplies on February 30th and 31st.
Mariann Sullivan: I'm gonna do that!
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, me too. Uh, it was very funny, but
Mariann Sullivan: I have a niece whose, whose birthday is the 29th.
Jasmin Singer: I know.
Mariann Sullivan: 20, there's not a 29th this year.
Jasmin Singer: No, she's like,
Mariann Sullivan: exciting when it is.
Jasmin Singer: She's like four or five now, even though she is like,
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: Uh, that's so special to be born on the 29th and it's super special.
Mariann Sullivan: Her mother, when she was born was like, oh my God, like it's hard enough to tell them what a birthday is.
Jasmin Singer: That's really funny. That's really funny. Well, Rising Anxieties, everyone's favorite, comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays, and the long form interviews on Fridays, as I mentioned earlier. I meant to ask you, since you've been doing Rising Anxieties for so long at this point, do you feel like there are any trends that are changing, in terms of what's coming out from the, from animal ag? Because frequent, well, just for people who are new to Our Hen House, the randos, welcome randos, Rising Anxieties is kind of like your commentary on what the animal ag industry is saying more or less, and I'm just wondering.
Mariann Sullivan: What they were worried about, but I've broadened it a little
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: Um, I don't think they're as worried as they used to be. They must be. I mean, obviously they're worried about economic issues. They hardly ever talk about climate, which is just bizarre. I mean, they do, uh, I would say water is a huge issue.
I would say they used to worry about us more than they do now.
Jasmin Singer: Really?
Mariann Sullivan: Maybe they're just more used to us. Like, I think it was a real shock. When I first started following this, it was, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago. Um, they just ignored, uh, the treatment of the animals. Nobody ever talked about it hardly.
And then the animal rights movement started really gearing up and it became a big worry for them. And now they've kind of, well, they still talk about it, but not as, not as much. I think that they think they have it under control, which makes me sad. So that's all rather depressing. Uh, they're definitely more worried about water.
Uh, but, you know, and, and, and disease,
Jasmin Singer: Well in what way? Like
Mariann Sullivan: Disease.
Jasmin Singer: Water and disease in what way do you mean? Just.
Mariann Sullivan: Um, well, particularly the beef industry, that the place where they, um, where they graze cows are, you know, they're, they just don't get enough water. I mean, there's a huge drought in the west and, um, and it's ongoing for years and they just, that's one of the reasons that they're starting to do more beef on dairy, which is to raise the, the calves of... male calves, but also some of the female calves of dairy cows who, you know, constantly produce calves because they have to in order to produce the milk. And raising them rather than killing them for veal as they used to, raising them for, um, to get bigger basically in a factory farm condition, um, uh, for beef.
Jasmin Singer: Hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: One of the reasons they're doing that is that the way they raise cows for beef now is, um, out on the range and then af... I mean, not everybody, but that's the standard method in these smaller operations, cow calf operations.
And then when they're about a year old, they ship 'em out to feedlots, so they're only kind of factory farmed when they're older, and this would mean they, they're factory farmed for their, basically their whole lives. And one of the reasons is that you can do that anywhere. You don't have to have, you know, be out in the west in the, uh, like with the cowboys or whatever.
So that's a big issue. I don't know, you know, things shift, but it's almost all the same. Like, they just think they're wonderful or they pretend to think they're wonderful.
They love their industry, they love everybody in their industry. They just, the, the amount of denial about what they're really doing, it's really complete. I don't think it's a lie for most of them, and it really makes you wonder about human nature. All right, on that cheery note.
Jasmin Singer: Do you, do you have a particular thing that you like reporting about the most on in Rising Anxieties?
Mariann Sullivan: Well, I do like it when they're worried about stuff we're doing. I mean, that's my favorite thing.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: They get incensed.
Jasmin Singer: Alright. Well, Rising Anxieties remains my favorite, everyone else's favorite too. So,
Mariann Sullivan: It's not everybody's favorite. You're, you're trying to make me feel better.
Jasmin Singer: No, I'm not, I don't do that. I'm not.
Mariann Sullivan: I think some people like it. I'm, it's not everybody's favorite. I think the interviews are by far their favorite. It's like, we have to face the fact it's not us.
Jasmin Singer: Do you know who our interview is? I, I, I get lost with the schedule. Like who, who?
Mariann Sullivan: This coming Friday?
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: Tomorrow?
Jasmin Singer: tomorrow. Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: Cameron Harsh.
Yeah, it's Cameron Harsh, uh, from World Animal Protection, talking about the bird pet trade, which I was not that familiar with. I, we've already recorded the interview and is pretty, you know, it's pretty horrifying. But, but really there are things about birds too, because of how long they live and how incredibly sensitive they are and emotional they are, and how attached they get because they're basically flock animals, uh, that are, you know, really, really important for people to understand.
And, and they really, they did a, a pretty deep dive into bird mills.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I learned a lot in this episode too, And uh, I think it's a, I think it's a great interview, so I'm looking forward to that airing. And send us your thoughts if, if you learn things too or always interested.
Mariann Sullivan: Paul Watson and Sarah Levy.
Jasmin Singer: Levy. I think levy.
Mariann Sullivan: Right?
Jasmin Singer: I think.
Mariann Sullivan: Who wrote this book. I'm holding it up for people who are listening. Um, The Only Flag Worth Flying: Direct Action and the Enforcement of International Marine Conservation Law. This is dressed up as a serious academic book, which it indeed is, and it is radical.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it's really good. I found it fascinating that he does not consider himself a pessimist. It's usually,
Mariann Sullivan: I think it's personality. It really is 'cause what he has seen...
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Do you think it has to do with the fact that he has kids, like on the younger side?
Mariann Sullivan: I, I'm not sure. That can go either way. I think people who are basically optimists are more likely to have kids
Jasmin Singer: Hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: and
Jasmin Singer: That makes sense. Uh, but it was,
Mariann Sullivan: And once you have kids, you have more of an incentive to hold onto that optimism.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like people have really strong opinions about this and we might hear from some folks. Feel free to reach out. Uh, and by the way. Jen Riley, who has been one of our, uh, team members here at Our Hen House for years and has just been amazing in the animal protection movement for decades, really wants me to remind you to remember Our Hen House in your estate planning because we actually did, uh... we were the beneficiary of someone, of part of someone's estate recently, which we were not expecting, and it was so thoughtful and kind.
Mariann Sullivan: What an unbelievable gift. And it really is like gonna make the difference between us making our budget this year or not.
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: So, yeah, what an extraordinary gift. I think of it often.
Jasmin Singer: Me too. Me too. Uh, so thank you, because we are a nonprofit, so it's something to keep in mind. And thank you for those of you who believe in the power of pro animal media, which is what we're doing.
Mariann Sullivan: And we want you to stay alive...
Jasmin Singer: Stay alive.
Mariann Sullivan: Want you to know that we would
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, we don't want you to, don't kick the bucket. We need you, the animals need you.
And, uh, we need you. So thanks for being out there. And until next time, keep changing the world for animals.
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