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App not listed? Try this RSS linkIn this episode of The Hen Report, Jasmin Singer and Mariann Sullivan tackle three meaty topics: the psychological toll of watching graphic animal footage, the loaded politics of the word “vegan” (is it an identity, a type of food, a diet, or a moral theory?), and the bizarre cultural obsession with meat as a symbol of masculinity — from a Texas Senate race scandal to online backlash against a fitness influencer who dared to eat tofu. They also touch on the latest convictions of Animal Rising activists in the UK and close out with an Easter etymology lesson you didn’t know you needed.
- Vegan identity vs. vegan behavior — Does labeling yourself “vegan” help or hinder the animal rights movement? Jasmin and Mariann explore whether the word creates barriers to entry for people who care about animals but aren’t ready to “join a group.”
- Graphic footage and vegan burnout — How do animal activists stay informed without traumatizing themselves? The hosts share their personal boundaries around graphic animal content and why setting those limits is not only okay but necessary.
- Meat, masculinity, and political theater — From Kenny Torrella’s Vox piece to Ted Cruz calling a Texas Senate candidate a “freak who wants to ban barbecue,” the hosts break down how veganism has become a political football in the culture war over gender roles.
- Animal Rising UK convictions — An update on the trial of activists who rescued puppies from a laboratory breeding facility, and why identical defenses led to wildly inconsistent verdicts.
- Easter, estrogen, and tofu scramble — A brief etymology of Easter tied to fertility, femininity, and the goddess Eostre — plus a case for why tofu scramble beats any egg analog on the market.
RESOURCES
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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Jasmin Singer: Welcome to The Hen Report from Our Hen House. This is Jasmin Singer,
Mariann Sullivan: This is Mariann Sullivan.
Jasmin Singer: and you just took a cleansing breath. Do you feel clean?
Mariann Sullivan: I'm clean in my lungs. I guess I, I don't know. Like I, I'm kind of wound up and I wanted to relax a bit before we started recording because we're a little all over the place about what we're talking about today.
Jasmin Singer: Well, yeah, but that's where the magic happens. I.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Right.
Jasmin Singer: So just a quick reminder about the magic that's about to happen, the Our Hen House podcasts are divided up into multiple smaller podcasts. Today, Rising Anxieties... I mean, not today... well, yes, today, but in general like,
Mariann Sullivan: So, so far this is going smoothly.
Jasmin Singer: Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays. The long form interview on Fridays and bonus for flock members comes out on Mondays.
We're on every pod catcher you could possibly dream of. We're also on YouTube, so hit
Mariann Sullivan: I very, I very seldom dream of pod catchers.
Jasmin Singer: Hmm. I've been having really strange dreams lately. Like I, I, I guess they're all based in angst, but you've frequently said that like you deal in your subconscious with things , so that you don't have to deal with them in your conscious.
So does that mean I'm dealing with my angst at night and I therefore don't have to deal with it during the day?
Mariann Sullivan: Uh, sure.
Jasmin Singer: Speaking of angst, I got this message from someone who gave me permission to talk about it on the podcast. This person says, How do you as a vegan balance staying informed on things, which might often include things that have graphic footage and listening to graphic information, but not traumatizing yourself?
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, this is, this is the age old question. Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, so this person says, how do you personally deal with seeing graphic footage? I think there's a notion as vegans that we should watch these things, but I also think everyone has a different threshold for it. I found many years ago, my threshold is basically zero, as in I'd see one clip and be traumatized, my day ruined hard to function, et cetera. And so I finally decided I needed to set some firm boundaries, but working in this capacity, I wanna be able to stay informed, but there might be times when certain things come up, and I just wanted to hear your take on how you balance it all and respond to it.
So, you know, this does come up a lot. In fact, it kind of came up in a casual conversation you and I were having with an activist before as well.
Mariann Sullivan: Like 10 minutes ago.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, like just by coincidence and, and I said, you know, I've more or less told this person that I don't ever watch footage and if, if it comes on to a movie or something, I just shield my eyes and my ears and I kind of peek to see if it, if it's done, and then I'll start watching again.
I don't think I need to. I'm not the person who it's for, and I, I, I do not think that I'm missing out, therefore. I still am very aware of the issues that are going on, and I don't see a reason to traumatize myself. I, I think most vegans, I know, most animal activists I know feel the same way.
What do you think?
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, I feel, I mean, that I feel exactly the same way. I mean, like the problem is I think when you're new, you just don't know. And, and so you have to educate yourself or else you, you really can't do activism if you haven't educated yourself. So in some ways, people who are just finding out about what's happening to animals, I mean, not only are they being traumatized by finding out that the world is not what they thought it was, but they have to learn all of this information.
I very, very seldom watch footage. I shut my eyes when it comes across my timeline.
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: If I feel like there's something I have to see, which is vanishingly rare. I mean, it, I would much prefer to read about something if I have to know about it than see it. And I, I feel like this is totally permissible because I don't eat them.
So,
Jasmin Singer: Exactly.
Mariann Sullivan: I'm not morally obligated to, to traumatize myself. I am morally obligated sometimes to learn something if I need to know it for whatever it is I'm working on. And so, yeah, I, I mean, I think we're on the same page.
Jasmin Singer: There are certain jobs in the animal protection movement that would require watching them.
Mariann Sullivan: Totally.
Jasmin Singer: I remember being 24, and this was 22 years ago, and going down to Norfolk to PETA and volunteering, and I was at a little cubicle and I was working on a particular campaign and I had to see all this footage.
And all around me there were people in cubicles also watching footage, and I, I just wanted to, I think at one point I did, stand up 'cause I was like, it was like the energy of everything just made me stand up. And I wanted to scream like, this is... like, why, why are we just sitting here? Even though we were all doing things like to fight the system, but all around me, people were seemingly unflappable. But the thing is, it's not that they're unflappable,
Mariann Sullivan: Of course not. I mean, if they, they wouldn't be working for PETA if they were unflappable, though
I think some people, some people, I don't know. If the connection between emotion and, and the intellectual experience might be somewhat different, but like the level of trauma might be somewhat different, but, but...
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: and actually it is a really good feature to be not tr that traumatized by it and still be able to function and still be able to learn. But you know, we all gotta do what we can do as long as it doesn't get in the way of, of what we can accomplish. I see. No reason to traumatize ourselves. Yeah. I mean, we all remember the early days.
And I, you know, I remember being at a presentation and seeing, uh, footage of chickens and, and it was... I, I still remember how deeply traumatized I was, but it, that was before I knew, and that changed me. So, yeah, it's important, um, but it's hard.
Jasmin Singer: I'm not the permission giver, but if I were, I would wanna give everyone permission to never watch footage if you're already here.
Mariann Sullivan: Why do you think when we already know what's going on, and you know, it is haunting every once in a while, one takes a moment and thinks of the pigs, like whatever... uh, and we know, but watching it is, is too hard?
Jasmin Singer: Because we care, because we see
Mariann Sullivan: I know, but we already know. We already know.
Not like we're unaware.
Jasmin Singer: Well, yeah, but we're watching a literal individual be hurt.
Mariann Sullivan: But we know literal individuals are being hurt.
Jasmin Singer: But we're watching the individual, it's not theoretical. It's the actual person.
Mariann Sullivan: I'm not sure I think it's theor. Well, I, I don't know. I think that has something to do with human nature, like seeing things, you know, we're basically visual and seeing things as, uh.
Jasmin Singer: We're watching
Mariann Sullivan: It goes straight into an emotional place that is very hard to manage. I don't know.
Jasmin Singer: Okay. Well, let's, let's switch gears because another thing that has come up recently for both of us separately is about the word vegan. And this, this is funny because
Mariann Sullivan: I noticed that this, this comment that you, or this question that you got started out saying, how do you as a vegan balance staying informed?
Jasmin Singer: Right? Yeah. And I, you and I have talked about labels ad nauseum over the past 16 years, and I think it's a conversation that keeps shifting and it will probably always shift, but to be honest, at the beginning of this, you said we're all over the place and I think it's partly because I don't really care that much about what people call themselves or what they don't call themselves. I just care about their behavior at the end of the day.
That being said, you, you pose a question here, should vegan be an identity or a diet or a food description or an ism? And. I, I think I personally like labels. I also don't care if other people don't like labels. I don't care what you call yourself. I just, to me, it's a good guidepost.
It, it's a context. I've always kind of wanted to fit in in some way. I think it probably comes from not fitting in at all as, you know, as a kid. Uh, or maybe it's also just human nature to wanna fit in. It is ironic that the thing I wanna fit into is a marginalized, know, group or many marginalized groups, I suppose, but I, I, I think veganism can be all of the above. I think it can be an identity. I think it could be food. I think it could be an ethical stance. You know, like, I, I don't know. Do you disagree with this? You seem like you might.
Mariann Sullivan: I, I'm not sure I disagree with it. Obviously it can be all of those things and it is all of those things. I just think for one word, it's doing a lot of work that don't, they don't necessarily all mean the same thing. And I mean, I guess I started thinking of this because I'm always thinking of like, why is it so hard for people who care about animals to stop eating them?
And one reason is, you know, we, we thought people would go vegan. And I think that term go vegan gets in people's way. The, you know, when you're just talking about vegan food, it's just, it's just vegan food. When you're talking about vegan people, it's like, well, you either are, you aren't. It's a yes or a no.
It's a black or a white. It's you belong or you don't belong. You have to adopt a new identity, and people are not willing to do that for, you know, a bunch of reasons. They don't wanna be different from the their families or the people they know. They don't, sure, they're not sure they wanna commit. They're not sure what it means.
And also like I was just saying like this, this whole question starts out and there's nothing wrong with that. I would've said the same thing. How do you as a vegan balance thing. It's really like, I don't like thinking of myself necessarily as a vegan. I would prefer to think of myself as an animal rights activist.
I am vegan. Veganism is something I do, and, and it's a, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, it's a moral imperative, which I know is probably not a very attractive thing for an activist to say 'cause it puts people off. But it's, it's just what I do. It's not what I am exactly. It's just what I do. What I am is a person who cares about animals.
It's not like I'm against it. It's not like I'm against using the term. I just wonder whether it's one of the things that seems to get in people's way because they feel like they have to adopt an identity in order to be, in order to care about animals, they have to like be a, be a vegan.
They can't just like choose not to eat animals at this meal. It's, it becomes a, a big hurdle and you have to join a new group and you, and of course you have to join a new group that other people are going to disdain.
Jasmin Singer: I'm a vegan. You're a vegan. We
Mariann Sullivan: We are vegans all, and when we get together, we give the vegan call and when we see each other, we give the vegan shout, and then we all come running to help each other out.
Jasmin Singer: vegan, vegan,
Mariann Sullivan: Can vegan, vegan, vegan, vegan, vegan.
Jasmin Singer: I think it is also who I am, but I'm not sure I can explain that. I think I'm just like so close to it that it feels like, it feels like I don't know where, where I end and my veganism begins.
Mariann Sullivan: Does it get in the way of a big tent of somebody who wants to try it on, but doesn't wanna join, join this big, uh?
Jasmin Singer: I heard this past week, this term that I, I'm going to admit, I dunno that much about it, and it's really hard to Google, but I heard the term neo veganism and every time I go to search for it, Google insists that I'm searching for neo paganism, which I'm not. And so it's been a little, it's been a little hard to research.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, well, I, I mean, you just told me about it 10 minutes ago and I searched for it, but you could, you Google told me that and then I was able to say no, I mean, neo veganism, but I still don't understand what it means 'cause.
Jasmin Singer: It basically means someone who is, who says they're oriented toward animal liberation, but they practice it with realism and harm reduction rather than purity. So their point would be that they're, it's fewer animals harmed. It's not perfect self branding, which I think
Mariann Sullivan: Oh, that's kind. That's kind of what I was saying though. The other thing I found talking about what it was, was it was something totally different.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, no, I get, I get that. Um, I, I get that the word vegan is doing multiple jobs at once, and neo veganism is basically a proposed rebundling of those jobs. Uh, I, I, I, I hate it, like, I hate the word neo vegan. I, I think it's so stupid and obnoxious and that words exist for a reason, but at the same time...
Mariann Sullivan: It's a little harsh for people who're just trying to work their way through a conundrum.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I know. And I just, I'm contradicting myself. 'cause I
said, I don't care what your label is, I just care what you do. But there's just something about it that is yucky to me. Uh, I think that you know it when you think about. When people call it the vegan movement, I, I take issue with that because it's like an animal movement or an animal rights movement. The vegan movement centers the consumer, like what you buy and what you eat and who you are.
But the animal rights movement centers the victim and the political and structural target, like industries and, and laws and norms. So I. I do take issue, I do take issue with term, the vegan movement, unless of course, I guess you're talking about just like what kind of waffle you're eating for breakfast, which I don't really care about.
Like I'm just not a foodie. Uh, but what do you think, like, do you, do you take issue with vegan movement?
Mariann Sullivan: Well, I, I mean, yeah, I would tend to call it the animal rights movement. I mean, I, the vegan movement also, it just gets confusing because people are vegan for all different reasons. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's no way to resolve this. Um, but it's, I think it's important to think about and think about... the most important thing to think about in my point of view is, is what keeps people from, uh, stopping eating animals?
Is it just, does it have anything to do with the word? Probably not, but you know, it's a way of, it's a way to think about it. And also I just think the word is doing a lot of work. Like vegan food means one thing and I think it's okay to be really interested in purity when it comes to vegan food 'cause you, you don't want animal products in your vegan food.
Vegan people, I think maybe purity can get in the way, um, when you're encouraging people.
Jasmin Singer: Maybe the problem is that vegan is a noun, an adjective, a diet, and a moral theory, and we keep acting like it's just one thing.
Or depending upon the corner you're in, depending upon the corner you're in,
you're like, no, it's that. Like if you're a foodie, it's like, that's my waffle. If, if you're, you know,
Mariann Sullivan: I think we've, we, I think we've beaten this, this horse to death. That's an attractive, um, expression.
Jasmin Singer: you're not, you're not, that's not practicing harm reduction.
Mariann Sullivan: I had planned to talk about this veg news article about how, uh, Netflix is doing, doing love is vegan in a plant-based, um, way. But then, then you told me it was a April Fool's joke.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, it's an April fools joke. Let's move on cuz it hurts my soul.
Mariann Sullivan: It was disappointing. You know, when I found out it was, I was like, Oh, well that's sad.
Jasmin Singer: Well, let's talk about masculinity.
Mariann Sullivan: Oh yeah. That's a cheerful topic. I guess for a lot of people it is a cheerful topic. Uh, there, there's just a bunch. There was this article by the wonderful, glorious Kenny Torella in Vox about, um, how meat became a measure of manhood and what happened when a nutrition influencer dared to eat tofu, which was really, I mean, it was just very...
I dunno, enlightening 'cause we all know what, what goes on. Um, but you know, this guy was an influencer. He, he's not vegan , but he wanted to like, explore, um, plant-based, uh, cuisine for health benefits. And, you know, he was an athlete. And he just caught, you know, like hated, hated to the ultimate degree and made fun of, and, um, told that he was going to make him have estrogen and he is gonna make him feminine.
I mean, this guy doesn't look feminine. I, I have to say, not that there's anything wrong with that. Um, and it, you know, like, you've all heard this, you've all heard this, but, uh. Said people think that eating meat makes you masculine and, and 'cause he, as this article says, when he breaks his boundaries of masculinity by eating vegan food, for a lot of people, this brings a lot of tension and a lot of questions.
I mean, people are just such fucking assholes. I mean, the guys eating some, some, uh... he got called soy boy, of course. You know, the big, uh, which is the name of the best tofu available in Rochester, New York, I have to say. Um. And, uh, he was surprised, you know, just he was just trying to explore some new, new foods and he didn't know he was going to be told he was, uh, not a, uh, manly man.
And it just reminded me of the other articles that had come up like last week. But I think we didn't cover 'cause we were covering something else. But this whole thing about James Talarico, you know, the guy who was running for Senate as a Democrat in Texas and who was, you know, giving them a run for their money.
Uh, and, Republican researchers found some video he had made in 2022 at a fundraiser event. Um, and it was in support of strengthening animal abuse laws. He never said he was a vegan, but he said his campaign, he was running then for the Texas House of Representatives had become a non meat campaign and they were just buying vegan products.
And, uh, and it basically about climate change, but also he mentioned animals. So, you know, I mean, it's not the greatest, uh, move in the world. But they found this out. Oh my God, oh my God. Like the hugest scandal in the world. Uh, Ted Cruz called him a freak who wants to ban barbecue. Uh, like, you know, like, what is, what is wrong with the world right now?
It's so crazy that he... of course, he responded by just putting out a video showing himself eating this huge chunk of meat, which was disgusting. But he had never said that he was vegan, so it's not like it was shocking.
Jasmin Singer: God,
If meat has become a symbol of masculinity and a symbol of national identity, like what would it look like to build an animal rights movement that invites people in without letting that symbolism ruin it? What, what do you think changes faster? Individual diets or this ridiculous story that meat equals manhood?
I just think we keep discussing it over and over again because men are so temperamental.
Mariann Sullivan: I think we are in a time of great sordidness in our politics, and certainly there's a time where there's a lot of belief on the part of politicians that, that delving into gender in any way whatsoever is a winner. Um, and, and really having, especially on the Republican side, um, you know, really sticking to firm gender roles.
So they're, they're just kind of using veganism even though it doesn't have anything to do with masculinity or femininity, they're just kind of using it as another way to bring gender into the conversation. And, um, and, uh, it's disgusting. It's just disgusting. I just like, I don't know how we live, like getting through this moment of, of this insane politics where people are just saying things nobody believes. No, nothing makes sense.
And it's not just politics, obviously, as that, as that Kenny Torella story told. It's also this whole online thing about masculinity. People are very anxious about masculinity. Uh, and it has to do with, with the fact that we're all insane. And, um, and I I... it's hard to know how to talk about this 'cause it's so stupid.
Jasmin Singer: I know.
Mariann Sullivan: You know, I, I guess the antidote for me, not that I wanna dwell on masculinity, but you know, a few, um. Weeks ago we had Paul Watson on from Sea, Sea Shepherd Society. And as I said, masculinity is something that can be held by women or men. It's just, you know, this set of like cultural stereotypes that have been put together that have some, you know, relationship, but, but not much.
But if you want somebody who is prototypically masculine, you don't get more than Paul Watson. I mean, come on. And, uh, you know, he's fine being vegan and, and talking about how much he cares about animals, and so.
Jasmin Singer: I don't understand when it became a negative for men to care. And when that became something that is seen as unsexy. To me, and yeah, granted
Mariann Sullivan: Totally. I think when we all went crazy, which was like a, you know, like sometime right after the pandemic or something, like,
Jasmin Singer: no, I
Mariann Sullivan: the world is crazy. I mean, the fundamental principle of masculinity in a traditional sense is, is, is protection, protection.
Jasmin Singer: Exactly.
Mariann Sullivan: That's, that's their, that's the function.
Jasmin Singer: Right?
Mariann Sullivan: Chivalry, but just also just fundamental protection, like keeping the baby alive so it can survive into the next generation.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: Uh, that's like,
Jasmin Singer: We need to flip the script.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't know. Are we making any sense what's, so has every, do you think there's anybody still out there?
Jasmin Singer: Yes I do. There's someone who
Mariann Sullivan: Well, thank you everybody.
Jasmin Singer: can't reach their off button 'cause they're driving.
Mariann Sullivan: Car. They don't wanna get into an accident.
Jasmin Singer: and their Bluetooth isn't working and they don't wanna get in an accident, but they're considering getting in an accident.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Just to get rid of us. Yeah. I'm sorry everybody.
Jasmin Singer: This BBC, this BBC
Mariann Sullivan: It's just the last, I think this is the last of the... i, I just thought I should mention it 'cause it's so crazy. Of the, the trials in the UK of, um, Animals Rising, uh, members who had, um, taken puppies from, from NBR acres, which, you know, is, it's like the Ridglan case.
It's like a puppy breeder for research in the UK and, uh. So these guys, Daniel Kid, Ben Newman, Bo Sebastian, unfortunately were convicted. They did receive condition, two of 'em received conditional discharges and one was given a 20 month jail sentence, but it was suspended. So they're not going to prison.
But it is unfortunate they were convicted. 'Cause I don't even understand how this all works because they had all these different people going to, uh, trial for basically the same crime of taking puppies out of this horrific facility. They all presented very similar defenses, and nine of them got convicted and nine of them got acquitted.
What do you do with that? Like it's just obviously like luck of the draw of, of who you get in that jury, and I guess to some extent the judge, 'cause this judge sounds like an asshole. During sentencing, judge Gray told the men they had deliberately misused the criminal justice system for your own purposes and said there was an intellectual arrogance in the certainty of some of the beliefs you have expressed.
Oh, God forbid that people should actually believe in anything because if you actually believe it and you're certain of it and you really think that you are right, that's intellectual arrogance. No, that is moral clarity. I'm sorry, Judge Gray. Anyway, I'm, it's unfortunate that they were convicted.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: Like I said, we're gonna have, um, have Rose Patterson on soon to talk about this campaign and others of Animals Rising.
Jasmin Singer: I am very excited about that. Before we go, I just wanna mention a couple things. First of all, it's your birthday in a few days,
Mariann Sullivan: It is indeed.
Jasmin Singer: I wanna just say happy birthday and I, next week we could report back what we, what fun we had for your birthday. So you buckle up.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't know what the plan is, but I'm sure it's gonna be riotous.
Jasmin Singer: Indeed. Indeed.
And it's also Easter and Passover. And, uh, so in the, in the context of Easter, and especially because there are people who buy rabbits during Easter and you know, there are a lot of campaigns to remind people that that's a terrible thing to do. I just wanted to take this opportunity to mention the amazing work of Great Lakes Rabbit Sanctuary and you could learn more about them at rabbitsanctuary.org.
And I just think having the antidote to oppressive, ridiculous, uh, traditions...
Mariann Sullivan: That where we're going for my birthday? Because I wouldn't mind being surrounded by bunnies.
Jasmin Singer: fun
Mariann Sullivan: It would be fun.
Jasmin Singer: I'll look into whether that's a possibility at some point. I don't know about this weekend, but by the way, Mariann,
Mariann Sullivan: Well, it is,
it's in Michigan.
Jasmin Singer: Oh, okay. Well then no. Uh, but it, in light of our conversation that we just had about masculinity and tying in Easter, do you think you could just sort of. Tell that story about Easter and eggs because I, I do like it a lot. And I know you mention it every year...
Mariann Sullivan: well, I mean, I don't know how, I mean, my understanding of the whole Easter, uh, celebration, and this could be wrong. I don't know. I don't, I'm no expert in ancient history, but you know, like when Christianity came to, uh, Northern Europe, they kind of combined the holidays that were already there with, um, with some Christian holidays so that everybody could, I don't know, join it together or they could like co-opt them. That's another way of looking at it.
And Easter, uh, the derivation of the word Easter is the same as the derivation of the word estrogen. 'Cause it was, uh, it was the feast of the, um, the goddess, I guess a fertility, uh, es es i, i, I forget her exact name, but that's where you get the name, um, estrogen.
And, and you know, when you start thinking about Easter, which never made any sense to anybody, but nobody ever cared, uh, it does seem to have a lot to do with fertility and Spring, and there are bunnies who are, you know, as we know, remarkably fertile and eggs, which, you know, seem to have a lot to do with, uh, reproducing.
So yeah, Easter is one of those holidays that is, uh, it is really important to Christians and, and for obvious reasons. Many of you probably know the story and, uh, and celebrate it on that level, but there are many different levels that you can celebrate, um, at this time of year.
Jasmin Singer: Indeed and you are coming over for Easter and I do plan on making the one dish that I feel confident making, which is tofu scramble.
Mariann Sullivan: One of my favorites.
Jasmin Singer: Old school!
Old school.
Mariann Sullivan: I love me some tofu scramble and you make, you make a very good one.
Jasmin Singer: I like to put a lot in it, but
Mariann Sullivan: The key,
Jasmin Singer: Honestly.
Mariann Sullivan: Depending on what it is that you put in it.
Jasmin Singer: it better than egg analogs. You know, I, I, I, like egg analogs for what they are, but
Mariann Sullivan: yeah.
Jasmin Singer: Tofu scramble is really, really good.
Mariann Sullivan: Oh my God. Doesn't that say everything about being vegan? It's like all of this effort that goes into, uh, goes into creating, um,
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: uh, exact analogs of, of
Jasmin Singer: Yep.
Mariann Sullivan: of these meat-based foods, which are very good. And it's very good when you're trying to make the transition and then you just gradually start to like, like the vegan foods better.
Like, you don't care anymore. Like, it's just so crazy. It's so nuts.
Jasmin Singer: I know. Alright, well on that note, just another reminder, Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays, that's this, and the long form interview on Fridays. Bonus for Flock members comes out on Mondays. We're a podcast, we're on YouTube, hit subscribe, hit like wherever you listen.
Happy Birthday to the one and only Marianne Sullivan. And if you're out there, and if you're listening, thank you for sticking with us.
Mariann Sullivan: Right. We hope. We hope you, you didn't get into an accident.
Jasmin Singer: And all these years. We'll talk to you next time.
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Check out Our Hen House’s other podcasts: The Animal Law Podcast, The Teaching Jasmin How to Cook Vegan Podcast, and the Antiracism in Animal Advocacy Audio Series.
Follow us on social media! You can find Our Hen House on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or Bluesky.
The Our Hen House theme song is written and performed by Michael Harren.