Anti-Factory Farming Is Not Quite a Plan: Creating a Big Tent | Rising Anxieties

There's a lot of other stuff going on in the world.

Uh, so I'm supposed to say, don't forget, we're a podcast. We're on YouTube. Please subscribe and hit like wherever you listen. And, uh, a few weeks ago, I did a rant on this program. And I thought that would be a one time only and one person commented, I should do it more often. And I assume that you all agree.

Anyway, something's really been bugging me and so I'm gonna rant because my anxieties are rising a lot about this, I think everybody's should be. It has to do with movement, uh, culture and, and goals, and the current theme that I'm seeing everywhere among many in the animal rights movement, as we call it, it is not necessarily pro veganism, but anti-factory farming and seeing this as a unifying theme, a big tent, we can bring in a lot of people.

We don't lead with veganism. We lead with something that everybody's against. And that's like everybody's, not everybody, but most everybody's against factory farming, or at least you're willing to give lip service to that. And a lot of people, authentically, they think it's a bad thing.

Uh, I'm all for it. Anti-factory farming? Yes, I'm in, I'm totally anti factory farming. Uh, but I don't understand some of the, some of the discourse around it.

I don't understand how you, how you say you're against factory farming, which is fine. You don't at least suggest, if not promote, what you wanna do instead? I mean, factory farming is how we feed the world. It may not be how we wanna feed the world. It may not be how we feed ourselves, but let's face it, it's a pretty important factor in feeding people.

So at best, this just seems like kind of the fantasy put forward by Michael Pollen years ago with that book, uh, implying that we can have small farms raising animals, quote unquote humanely, and we can feed people in this way, which is just nonsense. It's a fantasy.

We all know that by now. I, I don't think I have to go through the whole argument of why we can't scale small farms. Um. Or even close to the number of animals that we do now or want to, and at the same time treat them well and not destroy the planet. Like, no.

I mean that, that that can't be what people are, it can't be what people who are anti factory farming, but not mentioning what their pro are thinking. So, uh, the general public might fall for this kind of nonsense because they don't like to think too deeply about, about these issues, but people in the movement can't be thinking that.

And the listeners of this podcast certainly aren't, aren't... uh, know that that's doesn't make sense. So I'm just wondering, do we need to propose a real future to, uh, replace factory farming? Not a fantasy. Um. I, I just don't think you can be against something that is huge and not say what you're for. So, uh, and I'm, I'm not saying that everybody's doing this. I, I'm hardly on top of everybody's discourse on this.

So this theory of change, this anti factory farming big tent proposal is to chip away, I think, at factory farming with either laws or negotiate more, more commonly, negotiated agreements, corporate campaigns that institute some kind of, you know, reform like cage free.

I don't think anybody has the illusion that that's getting rid of factory farming. Obviously, cage free production is still factory farming. Maybe they do, I don't know, but I'm certainly not against this. I mean. I, as I say all the time, a higher circle of hell is better than a lower circle of hell.

And though some dispute whether cage-free even is a higher circle of hell, I'm willing to accept that in many cases, uh, it, it is, uh, for the sake of argument, I don't really know, but it does seem to be. And I am all for putting animals in a higher circle of hell if that's the best that we can manage. But I, I'm assuming that there's a theory of change here that goes a little higher than that.

What's the long-term goal? Is there a next step after cage-free? And, you know, they're working, there are other campaigns. There's the better chicken commitment, which is like slower growing breeds for the boilers and whatever. But, um. I, I would think that one of the goals here might be to raise the price of meat, because if you're going to take better care of animals, it's going to cost money. I mean. That is a given.

If you're gonna take good care of animals, it's gonna cost a lot of money. As anybody who has been to the vet recently is aware, uh, but nobody's talking about that. Nobody's talking about raising the price of meat. One of the, one of the factors in all of these negotiations, the whole selling point, is that they're not going to raise the price of meat.

Oh, it's not gonna raise the price of meat at all. We can do this, we can get cage free and eggs will be the same price.

Um. So what, what are we doing here? If, if the goal... is the secret goal to raise the price of meat without it letting anybody know that that's our goal? Should I not even be talking about this?

Uh, and if we actually propose reforms, if we get to the point where we're proposing reforms that we can't even make the argument that it won't raise the price of meat, like in any, like, like major reform would, does it... what do we do? Like, does everybody just then oppose it? I just don't understand exactly what eradicating factory farming, which I'm all for, actually entails.

And I think it may entail different things in different people's minds, which is always a good way to come to an agreement. Any contract lawyer knows this. If, if the two parties are seeing the contract differently in each, in their favor, it's easier to get those signatures on the bottom line. It's a lot more likely to cause litigation in the future because you haven't really had a meeting of the minds.

Alright. But, uh, is the end goal just cage free and slightly modified factory farming? Maybe that's it. Maybe that really is the goal. And, you know, if that's the goal, it's, it's certainly a better goal than most people in the world have. Is it small humane farms to treat their animals nicely? We know that that is not doable.

Um. Is it somehow getting such dramatic reforms, which I don't know how we would get, that people eat more vegan food because it's cheaper? Or when cultivated meat comes online and gets cheap and available, they're more likely to jump and overcome their resistance to it because meat has become so expensive?

Are we setting up for that kind of a, a scenario? That's gonna be hard, but if that's the plan, I, I would love to know it. Maybe there's a reason for keeping it secret. I dunno what's going on here. And if we don't set forth now, if there's a reason to keep this secret, and we don't set forth, uh, what happens when we get rid of factory farming, like, who's gonna buy into it?

Like they're gonna notice that both the industry and the meat eating public that doesn't wanna quit meat eating but is, is willing to go for some reforms as long as they don't cost any money, they're gonna notice if we're trying to make meat more expensive or largely unavailable. They're not unbelievably stupid. They may be bad, evil, whatever, but they're not stupid. It's, it's very confusing. Alright, so I don't have an answer in case you think I do.

Um, there, but I do have another theme, and I think this is the thing that upsets me the most is that part of this being anti factory farming and creating this big tent is, is this criticism of vegan advocacy as being divisive or moralistic or, or most importantly, ineffective because it's divisive and moralistic. Like it's gonna ruin the plan. Uh, if, if like, you know, vegans get their backs up, which, you know, sometimes they do, if they're disagreeable, which sometimes they are, it's gonna ruin the plan of being non-factory farming. And there's an assumption that people who are themselves openly and passionately vegan can't work toward compromise with others if they think of what the others are doing... you know, whether it's the slaughterhouse workers who, you know, we have a lot of common cause uh, with them, they're certainly being exploited by the industry or small farmers who, you know, are doing whatever they do. I don't understand. You know, the ones who are raising meat that's gonna be really expensive, and just, it's not gonna be a lot of it.

Or legislators who, you know, are not vegan, but like, sometimes they're quite willing to listen, sometimes they're actually vegan. I think this is nonsensical and ridiculous that the idea that vegan people who are vegan themselves can't work with these people for, for change. There are people like that.

There's a lot of 'em online, and God love them. I don't care if you wanna stick to your guns, I have no problem with, with it. But when I think of the people I have met in this movement and in our flock, like just people, uh, who are doing things like, uh, bringing vegan selections to their church suppers and explaining why if asked, getting PhDs in environmental science to undermine factory farming, joining with friends and neighbors on companion animal issues, shelter issues, wildlife issues, and you know, not hiding, not hiding the fact that they're vegan. Um, getting plant-based options, uh, front and center in cafeterias, such a big part of this movement and, uh, and, and they're not telling anybody they have to be vegan. They're just telling people they can be vegan.

And all these people, passionate animal advocates, quietly but not silently, representing veganism and animals to other people. Like, what's wrong with that? Like, what is wrong with that? And, and representing that you don't have to eat animals.

That, that makes it impossible for other people to listen to you? I don't think so, 'cause it happens all the time. There are loads of people who have cracked the code on how to talk about animals and not eating them and, and, and with people who do eat them, uh, it doesn't make it impossible to have a conversation.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I just feel like there's this, there's this discourse out there that veganism, or at least out and proud veganism, is working against the animals? I don't think so. We all, we all know that in the real world to work toward common goals, you don't have to be strident or hide the vegan ball.

It's not easy. We all know that too. It doesn't always succeed, but neither does anything else and, and we throw our bread upon the water and, and do our best. I just don't, I, I don't... there's so much thought processes going on in the movement right now that I feel like this is the same argument we've been having for 30 years, and at the same time, it seems new, and it's just a new way of having the same argument.

It really, it really drives me crazy. All right, I'm just gonna add one final thought, which is kind of dumb because I'm not sure exactly what my point is, but I think it's interesting. Um, we're constantly drawing lessons from, from the anti-slavery movement, um, you know, of the, the 19th century in the US. I mean, that's the one that people listening to this podcast know the most about.

But I think there was some cautions to be drawn too, and I'm no expert here on the history, but one thing that movement, obviously, you don't have to be an expert in the history, got terribly, terribly wrong, was in not dealing with the aftermath of abolition. Uh, they got rid of slavery. It's like getting rid of factory farms.

Uh, it's not exactly, but you know, sort of similar... and, and, uh, there, and it, there were clearly a lot of reasons for this, but things went very, very awry. And one of it is... the reasons is, you know, of course Abraham Lincoln was, was killed and we're presuming he would've provided much greater leadership on the aftermath.

But the end of slavery did not mean the end of misery, uh, and it meant the beginning of the Jim Crow era. Racism, exploitation, enforced poverty, celebrated discrimination. It, it, it was entrenched. It was entrenched. It was not, I think it was an improvement. I don't think anybody would say that slavery was better, but it was pretty bad for a lot of people.

And I don't see an exact parallel with abolishing, um, factory farming with ending slavery. They're not, they're not necessarily the same thing, and I'm not sure what you would replace factory farming with that would be the equivalent of, uh, the discrimination against African Americans in, in the South.

I mean, it's not the same issue at all, but it is just a reminder that abolishing the harms of the past necessarily means that you have to plan the future. You can't just get rid of stuff, especially big stuff that is like running the world. People will find a way to replace it with something just as or almost as bad if they can.

So you have to think about what it's going to be, and I'm sure there are many people out there who are doing exactly that, but the discourse I am hearing on the anti factory farming movement, I would like to hear more. So, so people who are listening to, people who are making sense of how, how, how we take this step by step.

We don't, um, we, we build the big tent on anti factory farming, which I think is a great idea, and, and we build toward a more positive future, and we understand what that future looks like. I wanna hear from all of those people, so, so if you have anything you're reading or writing or whatever that you think is particularly relevant, send it my way. I would really appreciate it 'cause I'm not hearing the right stuff.

All right. That was my, that was my rant. I'm so embarrassed to do this. It just seems so ridiculous. But, you know, uh, as Jasmin always says, it's our podcast.

Thanks for joining me today if you're still here, I really appreciate it. And, uh, thanks for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and comment on your favorite pod catcher. And we have a great week coming up. So listen to The Hen Report and the Our Hen House interview on Friday.

And I hope you guys are all hanging in there, especially those in the US of A, tough times, but, at least we all, you know, are thinking the right thoughts about animals. I really believe that.