“I’m Trying”: Filmmaker Ray Cruzzola on Documentary Activism, Regan Russell, and the Power of Storytelling for Animals

So we're very excited and we will get to you in just a moment, but welcome to Our Hen House, Ray.

Ray Cruzzola: I'm glad to be here. Thanks so much for having me. I'm, I'm looking forward to it.

Jasmin Singer: I'm very, very, uh, excited about the work that you're doing and, uh, and I feel like we all have so much to learn from you. Before we get to that, just a quick reminder to our listeners about the Our Hen House podcasts, Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays, and the long form interview, that's this, on Fridays. Bonus content for Flock members comes out on Mondays.

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Okay, let's get to you, Ray, because this is a, you know, a topic that I think we'll ring, ring some bells with, uh, our, our listeners for sure. Uh, if, just in case anyone listening is not familiar with Regan's story, can you just tell us the basic backstory of who she was and what happened? And then we'll talk about the film and a little bit more about her story.

Ray Cruzzola: Regan was like, like you said, uh, she was a Canadian activist and she focused primarily on, um, the animal rights movement. Uh, she also did a, a bit of human rights as well. And she worked with the save movement. Uh, so she attended a lot of vigils and she was a great activist.

She was really strong. I can get, uh, into that more later. And, um, in 2020 they were protesting Bill 156 it's an AGAG bill, so to not allow, um, activists to film or record, uh, what's happening in the animal industry. Uh, they were protesting that, uh, bill and she was struck by, uh, a transport truck, a pig transport truck. And when you look at the, the footage and you watch the film and so forth, uh, there's a lot of debate as to whether or not it was an accident or it was on purpose.

Uh, I'm in no, uh, position to say exactly what it was, but a lot of people see it as, it, it, it was a killing it, it was a murder. Um, it, it was a horrible thing that affected activists and people globally. And, um we felt it was really important not just to tell her story, but the story of her parents and how they were affected and her loved ones and so forth. And really just use that powerful story as a tool to bring awareness to the animal agriculture industry and what people can do about it.

Mariann Sullivan: Did you know Regan personally? Were you involved at all before that or were you brought in to work on the movie after the incident had happened?

Ray Cruzzola: No, I, I never met her. I usually film marches and so forth, so I was sifting through all my footage I have. I, I didn't have much of her. I really wish I did. It was strange, like, getting to know someone as you were creating a film, and then after, like, I felt like I, I knew her even on a personal level in a strange way.

So that was interesting. I wish I knew her, but no, I didn't know her.

Mariann Sullivan: From the movie. I mean, I guess I feel the same way, though on a much lesser extent, that I did feel I got to know her. Even though, as you say, there wasn't a lot of footage, uh, because you weren't making the movie when she was still alive. Uh, but she just had a radiant personality, didn't she?

Ray Cruzzola: Yeah! She, she seemed great. There, there were times when I was editing and you, you really felt the impact of the people she affected and how this death really hit them hard. And, yeah, just even creating it was very emotional.

Mariann Sullivan: And I, I mean, not that this is relevant to her... like it, it seems like a foolish thing to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. She was also stunningly beautiful. I don't mean in a, in a, in a goodness sense. I mean, she was actually stunningly beautiful.

Jasmin Singer: She was beautiful on the inside and outside. And I you just, I just wanna go back to one thing you just said, Ray, 'cause you said that it was a little bit, uh, shocking just how deeply people were affected. I don't think you used the word shocking, but uh, that was what I got out of it.

Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Like, how were people affected?

Ray Cruzzola: She had this personality where, this character, where she really welcomed people, uh, regardless of who they were. People, uh, seemed like they really felt safe around her and they could be themselves and she empowered people. Um, so she was just this like positive force. And we interviewed like her best friend, uh, is also one of the main characters and she was in it, um, a lot.

And, uh, they've known each other since they were 14 and Regan passed when she was 65. So it was a long friendship and she was so there for her best friend and her other friends, just like she was for the animals, like her compassion spread past the animals onto humans as well. So yeah, they were just so hurt. It really hurt just interviewing them sometimes.

Mariann Sullivan: You know, one of the things you told us when we were preparing for this interview, you sent us some notes, is your view that, uh, I'm gonna quote you. Film strategies to activate audiences in specific ways can be woven into almost every scene of a documentary. Can you expand on that a little bit and how you seek to do that?

Ray Cruzzola: So a lot of people they watch film, uh, in a passive way. They just kick back and just let the, the scenes flow through them. Um, but a lot of people, they're not aware that a lot of films are, are tools. And they're like these long ads, but instead of selling Tide or Fabreeze, whatever it is, um, they're selling ideas and concepts and even arguments. And it's, it's done in such a strategic way. And a lot of films, they find ways to use each scene as a tool to push these ideas. And, um, so it's horrible what Hollywood does. And so, but knowing that as a filmmaker, you can use, uh, each scene as a tool to push something positive.

Oh, by the way, like Hollywood will push like oppressive messages, uh, to, to women, uh, Black people, any minority group, animals, of course, uh, the environmental movement and so forth. So you use those tools that film has to offer in ways to push positive messages and to empower people and to show them how they can help and, and so forth. Um, and you, you make it so it's not obvious, like that you're just really just telling a story. But, um, it was great with this film because we didn't have to hide anything.

Hollywood will try to hide these messages, but with this, it was just like, Hey, we want you to feel empowered. We want you to take action. Like you're, you're such a special creation and you can do something really, uh, helpful.

Jasmin Singer: It's been our experience, I would say, doing Our Hen House that people seem to like stories about people, specifically when it comes to animals. I do wanna ask you about this. And I, I don't mean to be angling here, so please let me know if you disagree, but do you think it's a good strategy to focus on, like, let's say the story of a person to tell their story about caring about animals as you've done here, rather than trying to tell the story of a specific animal?

Ray Cruzzola: Uh, I, I think so. I, I, I a hundred percent think so. Um, yeah, like with this one, we really asked ourselves like, how would Regan... what would Regan want us to do with this story? And, um, we felt like, uh, she would want us to use it as a tool to really help animals and telling the story of her and her parents, who are lovely, and her best friend, and all the people who are affected, and using those personal stories to help... yeah, it helps as a bridge and it just helps people connect with these stories. And then from there you can show that hey, like animals are individuals that feel pain too, and they have friendships and families too. So it, it's a great method. Yes.

Mariann Sullivan: Have you ever made a film that specifically did film, I mean this animal, this, this film didn't really focus on the animals except as the subject of the, of the activism. Have you ever made a, um, film that, that actually focused on the animals? 'Cause it seems to me to be extremely challenging.

Ray Cruzzola: It is. Like when, when making this film, first of all, we were trying to really identify which demographic we are going to speak to. Like, uh, we knew that some non-vegan were going to attend, so how do we, uh, we felt like maybe if we push it too much, um, it would deter them away.

So we did feel like we, we had a certain animal presence there. But, um, it leaned more towards humans. Um, I did a lot on, on animals, uh, more shorter videos for like, uh, organizations and websites and promotional and fundraising content and so forth. And, um, I think they can reach non vegans.

Uh, I just did one on lobsters for vegan FTA. And Crustaceans and lobsters, uh, I think they're harder to connect to than, let's say dogs. They're less expressive. Uh, they have these faces that are alien like, but there's ways. There's ways to show their cuteness, their, their, their beauty, their, their show, the individual there, um, just even the way they move and, uh, so forth.

So yeah, there, there's ways.

Mariann Sullivan: In I'm Trying, I feel like one of the things you were focusing on, and not so much the personalities of the animals, although certainly there were glimpses of these pigs that came in and, and they were very real presence, but they weren't specific focuses on individual animals, but you were really addressing activism and, and, and I think trying to address some of the concerns that people often have when considering fighting for animals. Not everybody imagines being killed, uh, as like the most drastic thing that could happen to you, but people are frightened of activism sometimes. Is that something that you were, you were trying to, to address and to some extent allay those concerns and to some extent, and sympathize with people that this is a tough thing to do.

Ray Cruzzola: Uh, yes. I love the word you used, frightened. I, I think that's, um, a very accurate word. Um, I was frightened when I first got into activism, um, I was worried that people would think I'm, quote unquote, one of those, or maybe job opportunities would reduce and, or, or who knows?

Just, just a bunch of things. Shame can come in. Um, when coming up with, uh, trying to find ways to empower people, it's really important to find out what concerns they may have, whether they're aware of it or not, and have a list of those concerns. So one of them, uh, yeah, they could be frightened, also they may wonder, will it even do anything? Uh, is it effective?

Um, another one could be, if I join an animal rights organization, will I be welcomed in? Will I just be twiddling my thumbs? Um. So you identify the list of concerns and then you try to craft these scenes that address those concerns while still telling the story. So we will even have a scene where we'll show an animal rights group, but really show vulnerability there and, um, a welcoming vibe. So to address the concern that yeah, whether or not people will feel comfortable joining.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, and I mean the, the people you show, I think sometimes people think that we're all crazy and I think that you really helped. Then a lot of the people you, you did show were just thoughtful and sincere and nice and regular, and I think just that message itself can be very valuable.

Ray Cruzzola: Yeah, I, I think even the word crazy or weird, it's like when I feel like in a society where people are on autopilot, or they may be indifferent about certain issues, when you care so much and you're really trying to find ways and you're learning how the system works and you're, you're curious and you're passionate, I, I think it can represent itself as a little off. But it's, I don't wanna use the word crazy, but like, good crazy. It's great.

Jasmin Singer: You know what I found interesting is the documentary isn't just about what the problem is, but it's about solving it. It's about activism. What are the lessons to be learned from Regan's story in being an effective activist?

Ray Cruzzola: So I like how she was really curious about people and I, I found that, uh, and I, I guess, uh, the both of you as podcast hosts, you, you, you're curious as well. But I, I find that's lacking, um, in society and I could be wrong, but that's the, the vibe I'm getting. And she was really curious about people.

She made, uh, she made people really feel, uh, special. I think just having that approach can help with some of the concerns, like even entering an organization. If you have a certain curiosity, the, the spotlight may shift from you to genuinely just wanting to know people. Um, and it can help you enter the group, or when you're doing outreach and you're speaking to either an individual or a decision maker or a politician, having that curiosity can help you connect more, and it can also help them reduce their defenses and receive the information.

Jasmin Singer: Yeah. I wanted to also just go back to what you said about curiosity. Uh, I'm curious, um, about like what you mean by that, that you don't... you think that the vibe is sort of like people lack curiosity in general?

Ray Cruzzola: Yeah. And, um, that's, there was a scene there that I, I really wanted to push and really show that part of her. But, um, I feel like people do, uh, allow curiosity in a way where maybe they're just thinking about what to say while someone's talking or they... there's this word, I forgot what it is, but it's it, the definition of the word is this overwhelming feeling that every individual has this whole world and life to them. And it, it's a specific word, and your mind just blows that, like all these people around you, it has this whole huge story to them that consists of multiple stories and, yeah. And just like really trying to keep that in mind. And I, I forget too, and I'll walk down the street and people will walk by me like it's nothing.

But sometimes I remind myself like, Hey, like, look at people and feel them, and like there's a whole world to them and they're, they're just passing by you. And I think that helps with a lot of things. So.

Mariann Sullivan: The thing I wanted to add about this particular topic, about how you brought it to life, um, in the film was a story which was far before Regan became an activist, it was that story that her friend told when they first met, when they were like 14 and they were both starting out as models in Winnipeg. It was Winnipeg, right?

She was from. Yeah, and was just such touch, so touching because having been a 14-year-old girl, not a model, but, you know, there could be a lot of competitiveness and, and particularly in a modeling arena, you can imagine that. It was just such a moving story about how kind, at that age, Regan was to this girl who felt very awkward and lost and, uh, I, it just seemed like a theme that really repeated throughout her life. That, that it was just she had a curiosity, you know, enough to find out that this other girl was feeling kind of bereft and, and that kindness. It was such an interesting little blip that I think appealed to me particularly because, you know, I've been a 14-year-old girl and it's a very difficult time of life. Uh, it was, it was a lovely story and, and I think it does bring to life your, your thought that, not that that was a move of activism, but that is such powerful activism, being able to connect with another person, seeing what, what issue's going on for them. So that's all I was going to add.

I liked that story a lot.

Ray Cruzzola: No, I, I totally hear you. That I, I felt like that moment was so important and I love there's, without giving too much away, but friend who was that 14-year-old girl, uh, who just got into modeling and was, was scared and hesitant and so forth. She used the term that Regan saw her feeling uncomfortable, and Regan just wasn't going to have that.

I love how she just used that. Like, I'm not even thinking twice. There's no way I'm just gonna stand here and have this person feel so vulnerable and not do anything about it. So that, that was great. That touched me. Definitely.

Mariann Sullivan: You can see that same spirit coming when she found out what was happening to pigs, she just wasn't going to have it.

Ray Cruzzola: Exactly. Yeah.

Jasmin Singer: Mm. And this is a little bit of a non sequitur, but I keep thinking about it.

Many years ago, like. 20 years ago maybe, I, I saw an off-Broadway play that was about Rachel Corey, and, um, at the time I hadn't known who she was. So just for people who might not know, she was a, like a non-violence activist and she was a member of the Pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement, very active, um, throughout that, that whole movement, that whole world. And, and she was in a city in the Gaza Strip that was under Israeli occupation when, uh, she was run over by an armored bulldozer that crushed and killed her. And there, you know, there was a play about it. And, you know, just like I'm passionate about film, uh, our listeners know I'm very passionate about theater and the arts as a way of change making.

And, you know, 20 years later and hundreds of plays that I've seen later, I still think about her and this story. And I think that, uh, Regan's story has the potential to reach people about this, this movement and, and about the fight. And, you know, it's, it's hard to say this because it's like nobody should have to die for... you know, human or animal.

Like, no one should have to die for others to take seriously this cause. But in the case of Regan, what do you think she would say about the, you know, about the reaction to what happened to her and, and how to sort of best use her memory? I, that's a loaded question. I know you can't really exactly answer it, but I am curious what your instinct is here.

Ray Cruzzola: I think she would be pleased. Um, I think a lot of documentaries, they may focus on people who have like, maybe a huge platform or they're, uh, really public figures. And what I like is that Regan, I don't wanna say she was just a normal person because like, what does that even mean? But she didn't have that and she still made such an impact and I, I think because she didn't have such a huge platform, uh, and so forth, that it made it even more powerful that all of us can do something.

So if that message, and I do think it does, it did reach people who have seen the movie and also who have seen all the, the, the news articles about her, um, yeah, I think she'd be totally pleased that regular quote unquote people, um, feel like they can do really special things.

Mariann Sullivan: Can you tell us about the title? 'Cause uh, I'm not sure people would know what it meant, but it's very moving.

Ray Cruzzola: Anita, who, who produced the, the film. She, uh, came up with the title and it's called, I'm Trying. And Regan, while being interviewed, uh, she mentioned that just try, just like you may not have all the answers, but doing something is definitely a lot better than doing nothing. And just having that as an anchor. Like even right now, like coming on a podcast, I, I may be nervous, but let me just try to push myself and try to share some messages. And the two of you, I, I'm sure you try in so many other ways and it, it makes a huge impact. So you don't have to be perfect, but just, just try no matter what, like in, and just go on that journey. Uh, I think can do a lot and, and it's moving. When people see people trying and they're, they don't have it all together, um, I, I think that can be inspiring. So it's like you can't lose.

Jasmin Singer: In, in making the movie, what audience did you have in your mind? Like active vegans, non-active vegans, non-vegan? Like who, who were you making it for?

Ray Cruzzola: It, it was tough. Like when you have, uh, when you're, when you're choosing, uh, the demographic, um, they say have like a, a, a 10 year gap. I mean a, a, a 10 year range. So speak to people from 20 to 30 year olds and so forth. And if you try to branch out too much, then you don't speak to anybody. So it, it was, it was tough.

And we, we tried to see, okay, what, uh, films are out there already, um, and try to find the gaps. And so we focused on people who were already vegan mostly. We still had scenes that catered to non-vegan and so forth, but people who were vegan who wanted to make a difference but didn't necessarily know how to. And also maybe people who were vegan and didn't think they could even make a difference. So passive supporters and active supporters. And just show them also different ways that you, you can use your skillset. Um, and so instead of maybe speaking to an individual and trying to change them, which is really important, but also to speak to, uh, a person in a position of power or like a changemaker, politician, so forth, and try to change them so it can lead to policy change and so forth, and you can have a, larger impact.

Mariann Sullivan: I, I have to say that, that I find that very moving. And one reason is because that's always been, I mean, we've been doing this podcast for a long time and you know, sometimes it feels successful and sometimes it doesn't. But our goal has always been to reach those people who already get it about animals.

We're not telling people why they should be vegan or why they should care, but who, who, who wanna do something and don't know what that is. And, and just need a community perhaps to help them find the right space and, and, and get the courage to, to do what they really wanna do. So it sounds like you were really going for the exact same kind of audience that we're always hoping to reach. And I think, I think sometimes we really do reach.

You know, one thing that always I question, I always have to ask filmmakers, and frequently they are filmmakers who are telling stories about animals, which I think is also difficult, but this is also a very difficult story and I was wary sitting down to watch it 'cause I was afraid I would be crying by the end of it. What are some of your methods for telling difficult and painful stories without, you know, making the audience wanna leave? Uh, it's too much. Um, not shutting down.

Ray Cruzzola: That's a good question. Like you identify the goal and you try to reach it from different angles. Like maybe it is showing, highlighting the sadness or the animal cruelty, but sometimes it can even be more effective when you go around that, when you go from a different angle. Um, even when it came to the animal abuse scenes, they were done in a way where there was no blood, but, uh, we felt like it was still impactful, if not more. And, um, the sadness, it doesn't have to be throughout the whole thing. You can craft craft something in a way, like in a way that when you do show the sad parts, it, it still hits them and you still reach your goal. So it's not necessarily more sadness activates people more, it's just being more strategic in how you present it and yeah, sometimes less quote unquote sadness can do more.

Yeah.

Mariann Sullivan: I think certainly with footage of, of suffering animals less is frequently... so people don't get, you have to get in there really quick and end really quick, which is what, basically what you did, before people just handle it.

Ray Cruzzola: With animals, it's, um, I, I, I think people feel like they have to show so much. But in the end, if we're walking down the street and we see someone just randomly kick a dog, um, we still get a, a reaction and, and because we like dogs and so forth and we've been not programmed to hate them or not see them as individuals.

So if you can find a way to show these animals as individuals and special, just like a dog, then even just a little bit of abuse can really hit them as well. So.

Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.

Well, one thing I wanted to relate it to, I mean, you mentioned, I think the Plant-based Treaty, or at least you mentioned that Anita Krajnc was, was the producer of the movie. Um, we've talked about the Plant-based Treaty and we've had Anita on before, but, but not everybody maybe... that was a while ago and not maybe everybody has heard of that. Can you just kind of like get us up to date on how you hope this documentary is gonna fit into that work?

Ray Cruzzola: Regan's parents, they endorsed the Plant-based Treaty and they also support it in many ways. Regan's dad, uh, gave speeches at different panels for the Plant-based Treaty. The Plant-based Treaty is an extension of, um, The Animal Save Movement. And Regan Russell was a huge supporter of the Animal Save Movement. She attended a ton of vigils and so forth.

So we saw it was fitting and like, I genuinely think The Plant-based Treaty is doing amazing things. Uh, when Bill 1 56 came in, The Animal Save Movement, uh, faced a lot of challenges, and they branched out to really put a focus on getting people to approach their MPs and their politicians and so forth, and try to change policy. And they took the approach that the Fossil Fuels Treaty, uh, was using, um, really making small changes, uh, within the system, at a very local level, uh, from city to city. And slowly try to get, uh, countries to endorse The Plant-based Treaty and just keep growing from there.

Mariann Sullivan: And do they use the film at all? In the advocacy for The Plant-based Treaty.

Ray Cruzzola: Yeah, we show scenes where like the dad is supporting it, the parents are supporting it, and um, when we show different ways that other people can behave similar to Regan and hone into their power and their ability to make change, we show them also how they can save like as many animals as possible.

And if, if they have it in them and they're able to approach politicians and so forth, how to create that policy change, uh, just to empower people and show that, hey, you too can make a huge impact.

Mariann Sullivan: There's just no doubt that, that Regan would be so happy to hear that this story has, has become part of the advocacy.

Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. And you've said, Ray, that your films are meant not only to invite audiences to bear witness, but to respond. Can you expand on that?

Ray Cruzzola: Okay, so watching a lot of Hollywood films, they put so much effort into disempowering people. Like even, let's say, for example, the movie Speed where the Keanu Reeves hops on the bus and so forth, It's like they kept the people on the bus who are quote unquote regular people are waiting for the superhero to come in and save the day.

Or with Superman or all these superhero movies. And they push that a lot in Hollywood. So just to really show that like you too can make a huge difference. And I think a lot of people, when you tell them that, at least myself, when I first got into activism, like it flew over my head.

Like, no, no, that's for special people. It's for those people. And then when I learned more about it, it's like, Hey, wait a minute, I can actually do this and I can actually do that. And that action would lead to this and that. And even till this day, like I have these thoughts where this documentary might not be having any impact. Or like, why even vlog or do other types of activism? Like what's it doing? So those feelings, they're consistent.

They keep coming. So I, I feel like it's important to create material to counter that and just let people know that that's true at all, and just let it slide and yeah, use their powers.

Jasmin Singer: So tell us again the name of the film and where people can access it and watch it.

Ray Cruzzola: Okay, so the name of the film is, I'm Trying, and right now we're working on having an online fundraising screening to use those funds to get a distributor and, uh, get it pushed out to as many places as possible. You can follow the social media handles. Um, I'm trying film. And, uh, you'll be updated. We're still doing screenings in festivals and soon we're gonna do the online screening.

Jasmin Singer: Okay. And we will link to that as well in the show notes so that, because I'm sure that our listeners will be very interested in seeing it and supporting the future endeavors for the film. Ray Cruzzola, thank you so much for spending some time with us today and for making this film and, and just for all that you're doing to change the world for animals.

We appreciate you.

Ray Cruzzola: And thank you too so much for having me and everything that you're doing. It's awesome.

Jasmin Singer: I appreciate that.

And thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe and like, and comment on your favorite pod catcher and or here on YouTube. And if you want to join us as a Flock member, go to ourhenhouse.org/support. Don't forget, one of the perks is that you get bonus content, and Ray is going to be sticking on with us for a bit to chat with us a little bit more about his film and his work.

And so if you're in the flock, stay tuned for that content coming on Monday. And we'll talk to you next time.