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App not listed? Try this RSS linkJasmin Singer and Mariann Sullivan catch up on New York City happenings and dig into major animal advocacy news, from a vegan appointee shaping the city’s food policy to the fight to finally end horse-drawn carriages after a tragic event. They also cover a legal win for student activists, RFK Jr.’s surprisingly bipartisan push to reduce animal testing, and a call to action against Marriott’s broken cage-free egg promises—plus a look at new AI tools helping advocates work smarter.
- New York City appoints a lifelong vegan and environmentalist to lead its food policy, aiming to expand access to healthy, affordable groceries in underserved neighborhoods
- A human fatality after a carriage horse spooks renews urgent calls to pass “Romanch’s Law,” a bill to end NYC’s horse-drawn carriage industry and transition drivers to new work
- University of Wisconsin-Madison students are cleared of wrongdoing after facing backlash for promoting a protest against Ridglan Farms
- RFK Jr.’s push to phase out animal testing gains rare bipartisan support in Washington, signaling momentum for cruelty-free research policy
- Animal welfare group ICAW protests Marriott and the National Geographic Society over unmet cage-free egg commitments and ties to exploitative wildlife tourism
RESOURCES
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- Zohran Mamdani Appoints Vegan Environmentalist To Direct NYC Food Policy
- Central Park Horse-Drawn Carriage Rides Resume, as Push for Ban Intensifies
- CALLING ALL NYC RESIDENTS: On July 15, the City Council will hold a hearing on Romanch’s Law
- Attorneys Applaud UW-Madison Decision That Exonerates Student Animal Rights Group for Publicizing Ridglan Farms Protest
- Man sues DHS after agents tracked him down for sending a scathing email to ICE
- RFK Jr.’s quiet push to end animal testing wins rare bipartisan praise in Washington
- The Faunalytics Lens: See animal advocacy research clearly.
- Tell National Geographic: Remove David Marriott from the Board
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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Jasmin Singer: Welcome to The Hen Report from Our Hen House. I'm Jasmin Singer
Mariann Sullivan: I'm Mariann Sullivan
Jasmin Singer: And we're so excited to be here. Actually, I'm especially excited because I missed you all last week.
Mariann Sullivan: Yes, Michael was here instead of you.
Jasmin Singer: And, and thank you, Michael. He did a phenomenal job
Mariann Sullivan: Michael Dorf, Constitutional Law professor at Cornell.
Jasmin Singer: Uh, and, and just a reminder for Michael in case he's forgotten how to listen to Our Hen House, Michael, Our Hen House comes out multiple times a week.
Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report on Thursdays, the long form interview on Fridays, and bonus for flock members comes out on Mondays. We are on YouTube. We're on all of the podcatchers. We would really appreciate it if you hit subscribe, if you hit like, and if you commented where you listened.
Uh, you know, my-- the YouTubers I follow say that all the time, and I have to add- I don't do it very often, and I feel like I need to.
Mariann Sullivan: I do it every time.
Jasmin Singer: Do you?
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: You're a better person than me.
Mariann Sullivan: But I wonder 'cause it's annoying, but they do it all the time so it obviously matters.
Jasmin Singer: It does matter. It matters a lot, especially for people, YouTubers who that, like, that's their income.
Mariann Sullivan: Well, it just never occurs to me that there are new people listening.
Jasmin Singer: To Our Hen House?
Mariann Sullivan: I just think it's all, it's the same people who have always listened that they still do and nobody ever joins. I hope that's not true.
Jasmin Singer: So I wasn't here 'cause I was in
Mariann Sullivan: that everybody who's ever listened is still listening, but...
Jasmin Singer: why wouldn't they?
Mariann Sullivan: I, I can't even think of one reason.
Jasmin Singer: Maybe it's that we spend the beginning of the podcast talking about how great we are. So I was in New York City, that's why I was not, uh, on The Hen Report last week. I, I was on vacay, and I was spending time first with my sister...
Mariann Sullivan: that you had family business to
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, first my sister-in-law.
Well, my sister-in-law and niece, my 16-year-old niece, uh, came over for a few days, and that was, that was exciting. Uh, and I just want-- And then I went to New York City and spent time with my mom. But I have to tell you, my niece, who I'm obsessed with, like she's just so fantastic, needs to make a comment every time she has vegan food that this tastes vegan.
And then she'll say, "I'm not saying it's bet..."
Mariann Sullivan: tastes vegan?
Jasmin Singer: Y- she'll be like, "This definitely tastes vegan." And she'll say...
Mariann Sullivan: A blind taste test is called for.
Jasmin Singer: And then she'll say, "It's good. I'm not saying it's not good, but it tastes vegan." And I was like, "Oh my God." Like, come on.
Mariann Sullivan: I don't even know what that means.
Jasmin Singer: It's just, it's to me
Mariann Sullivan: but I don't know in what way. D- maybe it was healthier th- but you could d- maybe the vegan food that you were eating was healthier than the food that she normally eats?
Jasmin Singer: We went--
Mariann Sullivan: in it, or
Jasmin Singer: we, no, no, no. We went to Swill Burger, which is like an arcade and bar,
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah
Jasmin Singer: and they got a, uh, vegan chocolate milkshake, and I tasted it and it was like, oh my God. It was decadent and like creamy. It's just amazing, and she's like, "This is amazing. I mean, it tastes vegan, but it's like really good."
I'm like, "Oh, God. Like, have I had no influence on you?" Um,
Mariann Sullivan: that's influence. I mean, I
Jasmin Singer: yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: just thinks that
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I don't think she thinks that. I think she feels the need to do, like, a little dig.
Mariann Sullivan: Oh,
Jasmin Singer: just a
Mariann Sullivan: right.
Jasmin Singer: little dig. Although
Mariann Sullivan: enough.
Jasmin Singer: she's ex-
Mariann Sullivan: she was mean.
Jasmin Singer: She's not mean. She's, like, a lovely human being. She's 16 and she's being 16. When I was 16, I was just, you know, very, um, like, a little combative all the time. Not a lot, just a little.
Mariann Sullivan: combative all the
Jasmin Singer: I'm-- I am not. Get it? But I'm not. I'm, like, the nicest... I'm, like, a go-with-the-flow. I'm just,
Mariann Sullivan: The nicest?
Jasmin Singer: Alright, whatever
Mariann Sullivan: I am the nicest?
Jasmin Singer: Well, so when I went to
Mariann Sullivan: You have your moments. I agree. You actually dip into people-pleasing a little bit, especially when you don't like somebody.
Jasmin Singer: That's true.
Mariann Sullivan: nice.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. That was
Mariann Sullivan: me, you're hardly ever nice
Jasmin Singer: Oh my God.
Mariann Sullivan: But I'm
Jasmin Singer: so when I, when I was in New York City, you were very nice because you kept texting me like what, where to eat, which is funny.
Mariann Sullivan: that trip for one minute?
Jasmin Singer: Yes, we saw like all-- we saw Broadway shows and, and, and
Mariann Sullivan: plan the food. It was
Jasmin Singer: I did, I planned the food. I, well, I planned, uh, uh,
Mariann Sullivan: You would text me at like 5:30 and say, "Where should we eat tonight?"
Jasmin Singer: No, no. W- I planned Onyx, which is, I've been there before.
You've been there. It's phenomenal. It's Greek, I think, like Greek and Middle Eastern.
Mariann Sullivan: good.
Jasmin Singer: And
Mariann Sullivan: a very elegant,
Jasmin Singer: very nice...
Mariann Sullivan: nice night out,
Jasmin Singer: Actually, oh, I have a funny story about that. I'm not sure if I told you this. So I was there with my friend Sarah. This is before my mom got there. I was there with my friend Sarah, who's a vegetarian, and, um, we, we ordered a bunch of stuff, and at one point...
And the restaurant's totally vegan. And at one point we're eating and Sarah, like, kind of stops chewing and she goes, "This is..." And she said, "You're gonna freak out. I think this is steak." And I was like, "The restaurant's vegan." And she was like, "Are you sure? This really tastes like steak." And it wasn't like a fake meat.
It was like made out of like eggplant or something. And so I like Google it and it was like, yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: in a long
Jasmin Singer: No, but,
Mariann Sullivan: there is
Jasmin Singer: but in a... It, I was like
Mariann Sullivan: a steak out of eggplant. Yeah, now I really wanna go
Jasmin Singer: I think it was, I think it was eggplant. I might be wrong. But, uh, anyway, I love that restaurant so much. And then, and then I also did plan PS Kitchen, which is just in the theater district. It was quite literally next to the theater where we had just seen a show.
Mariann Sullivan: I also love it.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: great restaurant
Jasmin Singer: I've been there so many times that I think I just...
It's just PS Kitchen to me, but it plays a really important role in my visits. And, and but yeah, you told me some other places to go, and it was, I, you know, I'm not a foodie, so I'm sure I'm disappointing all the...
Mariann Sullivan: Beyond Sushi. I haven't
Jasmin Singer: Yes.
Mariann Sullivan: Sushi in years
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. It got fancier. It got fancier. Like, I thought we were just, I thought it was gonna be, like, just a, you know, dip in, dip out, and it was like...
Mariann Sullivan: to be just some counter space on,
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: Street, a tiny little hole in the wall.
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is nice to see. And it was nice to be in New York, our home for so many years. It's funny how everything changes, and yet nothing changes about New York.
Mariann Sullivan: totally New York.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Exactly.
Mariann Sullivan: the same and it's completely different.
Jasmin Singer: Actually,
Mariann Sullivan: don't understand how that works
Jasmin Singer: I had taken time off from, you know, from World Shapers, and I had a meeting with my colleague, uh, when I came back and, and I was like, "So how, how did everything go?"
And she said kind of the same thing. She was like, "I have so much to tell you, but also nothing happened." Like, it, it's, you know, it's kind of everything is a dichotomy. And, and
Mariann Sullivan: profound
Jasmin Singer: uh, well, you know, she said to me, "How are you doing?" And I'm like, "I mean, I don't understand anything, but I'm fine." She's like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "I don't understand how being like, like doing house chores can be a full-time job. I don't understand why my dog's eyes are squinty." He's fine now, by the way.
It was an allergic reaction that Benadryl helped. "I don't understand why people eat animals, but also I'm fi- like, I'm fine, and, like, nothing's fine." It's just, that's just the world, I think, and that's just existence.
Mariann Sullivan: Always, when people ask me h- how I am, I always say I'm fine, in context.
Jasmin Singer: Oh, I like that. I'm gonna steal that. All right, so let's, uh,
Mariann Sullivan: than your version.
Jasmin Singer: Per ush.,
Uh, so there's a vegan environmentalist appointed to direct New York City food policy,
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: which is
Mariann Sullivan: this is cool.
I really love that his name is Siddhartha.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah
Mariann Sullivan: Siddhartha Sanchez. He's a lifelong vegan and environmentalist. I don't, I
Jasmin Singer: Amazing
Mariann Sullivan: that much more to the story than that. I mean, they're, they're... I think they're trying to like, you know, be progressive about their food policy.
Tr- a lot of changes going on in New York City. uh,
Jasmin Singer: And also no changes at all.
Mariann Sullivan: And
they're opening
up those grocery stores that they've been talking about, which are apparently supposed to be the five public-owned grocery stores in underserved neighborhoods. You know, and there's all this like brouhaha about how it's socialism, or communism or some nonsense.
And, uh, but it, uh, I, I was interested to see that those grocery stores are going to be affordably priced food essentials. I really wanna find out what, what kind of food they have in them. What do they consider food essentials? That'll be interesting. And so they're doing a lot. They... That's cool.
Big on food justice, strengthening community-led solutions, expanding access to healthy foods.
This story is not really a vegan story. He's just a vegan person, and I think it's so cool that a vegan person was assigned to that job.
Jasmin Singer: I do too. I love that for us. Uh, New York City had some, had some other news. I mean, you know, we've covered the horse-drawn carriages quite a lot, but
Mariann Sullivan: talk about the accident? I can't even remember. It's been so
Jasmin Singer: Not,
Mariann Sullivan: since you've been
Jasmin Singer: no. Not while I, not, unless you did with Michael. No. But there was, there was,
Mariann Sullivan: I don't think
Jasmin Singer: I, as soon as there was a horse-drawn carriage tra- tragedy that involved a human being, people started paying attention.
Whenever,
Mariann Sullivan: a tragedy involving a horse, like, you know, just, I don't know, a month or two ago. But, um, so this was, this was a crazy accident. People have probably heard about it.
This was a while ago. It was in the end of June. And, uh, so apparently the driver, 'cause, you know, these people are really highly trained professionals, got out of the carriage with this, a, a family of four, they're from India, they're tourists, family of four, in the, um... He got out so he could take a picture of them sitting in the carriage, and the horse, my understanding is that the horse spooked, uh, which is not surprising.
It was, of course there was no driver, so just started to run off. The mother actually fell out, and she was okay, and then the son either jumped or was also, uh,
Jasmin Singer: No, he jumped. He tried to help. He tried to save his mother.
Mariann Sullivan: heard it.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, he tried to save his mother
Mariann Sullivan: but, but in this article, it starts off by saying that he fell,
Jasmin Singer: Okay
Mariann Sullivan: very peculiar, because everything else I've heard was jumped.
He, you know, he saw his mother fall off, and he jumped, and he hit his head, and he died. He was just a kid. He was 18 years old.
Jasmin Singer: 18, yeah, it's... And they were tourists
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: thinking this was the great American experience.
Mariann Sullivan: people have probably heard this story. I don't,
Jasmin Singer: Yeah.
Mariann Sullivan: like... Um, so the, the, this... If, if, if they can't end horse and carriages in New York City this time, it's just hopeless.
And, you know, everybody's on it. You know, Voters for Animal Rights and, and other organizations are really on it. and, uh,
Jasmin Singer: Ugh.
Mariann Sullivan: it's ju-
Jasmin Singer: awful
Mariann Sullivan: just find it so outrageous that they feel like they have to do so much for the drivers in order to end this hideous industry. Other industries go out of business. They don't find a new job for everybody.
Jasmin Singer: I'm, I mean, there's also replace-- I mean, I, as far as I know, I think there's replacement ideas, you know, f- for other types of ethical
Mariann Sullivan: so on July 15
Jasmin Singer: transportation
Mariann Sullivan: the city council's holding a hearing. They're now calling it Romanche's Law. Romanche's is the name of, of the young man who died. and it would permanently end the horse and carriage industries, send the horses to loving sanctuaries, and help, help drivers transition to new employment.
Like in no other industry, like in indus- your, y- your business goes out of business, like you don't get a new job, but
Jasmin Singer: Except for dair- dairy transition programs. We're not, see vegans
Mariann Sullivan: horse that died the week before. It was Denise.
Jasmin Singer: Denise
Mariann Sullivan: so they, they're really calling... If you're in New York City, they're really calling on people to go and testify.
Um, you have to arri- arrive by 8:30 AM on July 15th. And you... It also says you can testify in person via Zoom or submit written testimony. I'm assuming they mostly want people from New York City,
Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm.
Mariann Sullivan: but, you know, like, this is the moment. If this isn't the moment, there's just never gonna be a moment. And this is bigger.
I mean, obviously it's worth doing because of those horses, um, who are constantly cycled in and out of this, like, abusive industry. But it's also... This is a, an iconic issue in this movement, I think. Like, this... E- everything that happens in New York gets a lot of press, um, and if this is ended, it, it's going to be heard, like, everywhere.
And other city... I mean, a lot of other cities have already, um, ended it. Philadelphia most recently. And, um, and even more are going... People... It's not even just that other cities will end it. It's, it's a, it's a sign that people are paying more attention to what we're doing to animals, and it's a sign it's gonna get a lot of press and a lot of notice.
I think that anyway. I think it's, it's even bigger than the issue itself, and the issue itself is big. But it's, it's a very symbolic issue that, that we are entering a new way of thinking about what we do to animals. Uh, and so I... You know, everybody who's in New York, please, uh, please consider going and testifying and...
or showing up or, um, just to, just to show yourself and, and anybody else, uh, who can come up with a way to do something or to donate or whatever. I think this is an important moment in our movement. Do you agree that there's
Jasmin Singer: I
Mariann Sullivan: Maybe it's just because I,
Jasmin Singer: do too. I, I
Mariann Sullivan: used to live in New York City and I've known about this issue for a million years and it's been fight- fought for a million years and gotten absolute- well, not nowhere.
I mean,
Jasmin Singer: same,
Mariann Sullivan: a little progress
Jasmin Singer: I, same sies. I also have, of, of course, lived in New York City for many years, and I remember right when I started, i- as an animal activist, I remember helping out with an event that was a fundraiser for banning the horse-drawn carriage industry. It was... The organization was, let's see, uh, if I could say the name, the New York City Voters, Humane Voters.
You know, it was John's...
Mariann Sullivan: voters for animal rights? I
Jasmin Singer: No, it was New Y- the New York City's Coalition... I don't remember. It w- it doesn't exist anymore. It was John Phillips's organization.
Mariann Sullivan: Okay
Jasmin Singer: Um, but, and it, it doesn't work anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. But sadly, uh, yeah, sadly they closed because they did a lot of really great work pushing legislation, and this was their, a big focus of theirs.
And I remember, uh, helping out with an event there in, I think it was like 2007 probably. And there was a lot of energy amongst us activists, and now we're 20 years later, and just to revisit what I said earlier, everything changes and nothing changes. I agree with you that if there ever was a moment, this is the moment
Mariann Sullivan: And I think it's extremely important. I mean, beyond the importance of the issue itself, that it- it's, it's a hugely sym- if they win this, that really sets us back
Jasmin Singer: Well, speaking of winning things, let's talk about Ridglan
Mariann Sullivan: way, they've started up having the, um, carriage rides, uh, again. They stopped for like a week. Why did they stop? I don't know.
Jasmin Singer: Well,
Mariann Sullivan: what's the point if you're
Jasmin Singer: when I was
Mariann Sullivan: And, and this kid's father is furious. I mean, like clearly they just didn't... You know, they were naive about it. They didn't know what they were getting into, and he's furious that they started up again.
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Well, good. I mean, I can't even imagine what he must be go- what both of this kid's parents must be going through.
Mariann Sullivan: Just awful.
Jasmin Singer: The, uh, when I was in Midtown, there were a ton of... I saw multiple pro-animal billboards and including the horse-drawn carriage one with... You know, it had a picture of a horse down and it, it was like dated the, the week before the billboard was up.
And then there was like a go vegan billboard in Times Square, near Times Square as well. So that was fun.
Mariann Sullivan: I do think that there's something in the air. I mean, I do. I think that, like, our issues are just getting a different kind of attention than they used to. It's very delicate. I'm not saying that, you know, there's some big change going on, but there's something going on. I mean, obviously, political situation in the country is in an unbelievable moment of flux, and it's so-- these moments where people, are more open to things at certain moments in time.
You know, people just
Jasmin Singer: This is the moment
Mariann Sullivan: people just plod through their life and, and don't really pay the, a lot of attention, and some-- there are moments when policy and compassion and suffering kind of become more obvious, and I, I do think that's happening. I mean, one of the re- one of the things is, we've talked about this before, but this is a really interesting article about it.
It's in, uh, it's in-- I got it off of Yahoo, but, but, uh, I... What's the name of... in TC, TC. Um, "RFK Jr.'s quiet push to end animal testing wins rare bipartisan praise in Washington." This is a good article 'cause it kinda puts it all together, and, you know, the article is fully aware that RFK Jr. is not popular in really a lot of ways. Um, few issues have brought RFK Jr. much cross-party goodwill on Capitol Hill, but his effort to phase out the use of animals in medical research is doing just that. Think about that. That, that trying to save animals, in research no less,
Jasmin Singer: is
Mariann Sullivan: actually a political win, and they're recognizing that. So, uh, th- there's, th- there's this stuff we talked about at the NIH, um, creating this Office of Research Innovation, Validation and Application, and, um, the FDA, uh, you know, they're, they're-- the NIH is, is gonna stop awarding grants that rely solely on animal testing.
The FDA issued a draft guidance earlier this year on, on alternatives, and, and people in, in Congress, I think, are worried about, like, how to, how to get this right and-- because all of a sudden, people out there seem to care. They tell you about Senator Cor- Cory Booker's FDA Modernization Act 3.0, which has been hanging out around for a while, actually st- might start moving. Really fascinating. I mean, this is the moment. I'm telling you, this is the moment.
Jasmin Singer: Well, and one of the reasons that this is the moment is, and we keep, we keep covering this and we will continue to, the, the beagles, and so update us on what's going on with Ridglan Farms
Mariann Sullivan: Well, I'm not sure I have any update itself on Ridglan Farms. I, I talked a bit, 'cause I talked about it on, um, Rising Anxieties, the, the latest, um, if you, if you want to listen, if you haven't listened to that, go back for more detail on the charges that have been laid. But I had talked about a situation before, and I wanted to give an update on it.
This is the thing that was going on at, um, University of Wisconsin in Madison, and, uh, this is a, a press release from the Animal Activist Legal Defense Project at the University of Denver. And I, you know, I keep saying, like, where would be, we be without this cl- law clinic? Uh, attorneys applaud UW-Madison decision that exonerates student animal rights group for publicizing Ridglan Farms protests. And this was this ridiculous, ridiculous situation. There's this animal rights group at the University of Wisconsin, and they were passing out a, a flyer promoting Save the Beagles events at Ridglan. And, um, the, like, just exercising their rights to free speech. And, uh, it j- it was just telling, like, people where it was going to be, and that there was going to be a protest.
And, um, it included a QR code. It linked to a Google Doc that contained instructions for contacting authorities, also for signing a petition, also for making donations. And then it contained a, that Google Doc then contained a link to a blog by Wayne Hsiung, which discussed both protesting and openly rescuing. And the university contended that these students were promoting illegal activities because of that.
These students got into all sorts of trouble for handing out a leaflet about a protest. Uh, so the Animal Activist Legal Defense Project jumped in and, and, and represented them. And, uh, also, I think that, um, FIRE, I forget what that, that, uh, for. It's a, um, it's a really, really good First Amendment, um, uh, law firm. I've interviewed one of their lawyers about a, a pr- protest, I think it was in Houston. And there's a quote from, uh, their attorney, uh, "We're thrilled that this unwarranted investigation into protected speech is over. We hope that going forward, members of all sorts of student clubs can share their views freely and enjoy standing up for what they believe in." I really like the way they put it, because FIRE is very adamant that they don't-- They, they will represent anybody whose f- whose free speech rights are, are... They don't take a side. You know? Right wing, left wing. Like, they just want people to be able to express themselves.
Jasmin Singer: buddy, like my buddy David here in Rochester. I th- you
Mariann Sullivan: I, I just saw, I, I sent you a, a
Jasmin Singer: Yeah, you texted me that.
Mariann Sullivan: representing him now
Jasmin Singer: I know. He's, he's in the news, uh, David Strieber, he's in the news nationally because he wrote an email six months ago to, uh, uh... Who, who did he write the email to?
Mariann Sullivan: Um, the, the, the guy, the, the nutjob who was... Oh, oh, oh, don't tell anybody I said that, who was running ICE. You know, the... Bovino. Bovino
Jasmin Singer: And so he wrote him an email after the killing, the, those Minnesota killings, and he just basically was like, "You should be ashamed of yourself," kind of thing, and, and you will always have to live with yourself. Like, he was angry and he sent an email. Six months later, they showed up at his door, and he was in Finland with his young daughter, but his wife was home with their other child, and they basically were, like, th- threatening him and, and saying, like, "This was you know, there's a threat to us, so we're here."
And, and his wife, who's like a pastor, freaked, you know, texted David. David winds up at JFK Airport or, yeah, at JFK Airport. He goes to sleep with his-- He goes to sleep at, like, one of the JFK Airport hotels 'cause the next day he was gonna take a train back up to Rochester, and the feds showed up at his hotel, which he doesn't e-
Mariann Sullivan: tracking him
Jasmin Singer: yeah, and they, he didn't even tell his wife what hotel he was...
Like, he just, yeah, they were tracking him. And so now he's, he's filing a federal lawsuit and fi- so that's how the FIRE, FIRE represent, represented him. I went on a tangent, but it feels related
Mariann Sullivan: I loved that interview that I did with, uh, their attorney. It was, she's like really it. They really know their stuff.
Jasmin Singer: We'll link to that in the show notes because it's definitely of the moment, and I think that's very, very cool. All right, where are we? Did-- You had some announcements, right?
Mariann Sullivan: Yes, I do. Let me
Jasmin Singer: Okay
Mariann Sullivan: Um, all right. One is from, uh, ICAW, now I don't know what it stands for. Jasmin,
Jasmin Singer: you should
Mariann Sullivan: talking about this, Google what ICAW stands
Jasmin Singer: I want you to o- I will only do it if you make it sound like a bird saying it.
Mariann Sullivan: ICAW, um,
Jasmin Singer: don't you have, like, a crow imitation?
Mariann Sullivan: International Council for Animal Welfare.
Jasmin Singer: That was... You, you've,
Mariann Sullivan: this is
Jasmin Singer: you disappointed me. I want the, I want the crow imitation.
Mariann Sullivan: That was as close as I could get.
Jasmin Singer: Alright, fine. Okay
Mariann Sullivan: So this, this, it's just an intricate protest, and they want help with it, so, uh, that's why I put it under, um, you know, announcements of things that people can do. And this is about Marriott. And they're, they're, the way they became concerned with Marriott is that they're, they're committed to transitioning to 100% cage-free eggs, which cage-free is a big cause for ICAW, but not their only cause, and they missed their deadline.
They were supposed to, um, be 100% by 2015. They way missed their deadline. Then, then, um, they recommitted to 2025. They missed that deadline. uh, so they're, you know, they're heavily using... And, you know, they're huge, so it's all over the world they're using battery cage eggs. And, uh, David Marriott, uh, is, is seated on the board of trustees of the National Geographic Society. So they also found out these, um, various things that Marriott is doing, aside from the egg thing, and did an investigation documenting a pattern of animal welfare concerns at wildlife attractions and industrial farming facilities connected to Marriott, um, and, and promoted, uh, by their tourist, uh, I don't know, whatever, whatever they, however they promote, in Thailand, Bali, Indonesia. Uh, tiger attractions, elephant entertainment, um, Kopi Luwak coffee, which it must be that coffee that they get from, from somebody's poop. I know you think I made that up, but I didn't.
Jasmin Singer: What just happened?
Mariann Sullivan: They do. They feed the coffee beans to some animal and that is-- some caged animal, and then they make coffee out of the...
Jasmin Singer: I mean, coffee makes me poop.
Mariann Sullivan: it's true.
Jasmin Singer: Okay
Mariann Sullivan: it might not be, like, I might not have the process in exactly right, but people will do anything, I swear. Where did, who came up with the idea for that?
Anyway.
Jasmin Singer: I think that all the time. Can I just say, I think about that all the time. Like, who was like, "Those fish eggs look delicious. Let's make it a delicacy.
Mariann Sullivan: Let's eat that.
Jasmin Singer: Let's fatten that duck's liver." What? Let's
Mariann Sullivan: Um, no, I, I know where that came from, the duck's liver. It's like they killed ducks right before they were about to migrate, and ducks actually gorge themselves right before they migrate, so they can last for a long time while they're flying. Um, they have a lot of food and, uh, you'd think they'd be heavy, but anyway, they do. And they realized that the liver was more delicious when, when ducks were just about to migrate, so they thought, "Oh, I know. We can just stuff them full of food and then kill them."
That's how people are. That's, that's how we roll, us humans. All right, so David Ma-- So they did this. That's what Marriott Hotels are doing, not complying with their cage-free policy, plus promoting all of these abusive facilities. David Marriott, who obviously runs Marriott Hotels, I would assume, he's seated on the board of trustees of the National Geographic Society, so they're doing a protest against the National Geographic Society. I mean, this took a lot of thought, I have to say. And, um, and they, they did protests at, at a June 26th museum opening, and they're, they're doing an on- ongoing, um, protest against, uh, National Geographic because of this, 'cause they're being totally hypocritical as-- just 'cause some rich guy came along. Nice, right?
Jasmin Singer: Super nice.
Mariann Sullivan: I like people who are thinking all through all of the complications. And I have another, um... So, oh, you can find out more about that and, and chime in at natgeohypocrisy.com
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. And we'll link to that as well.
Mariann Sullivan: I just got this email from Faunalytics, and they-- telling me that they've just laun- You know, Faunalytics is the research organization. Amazing, amazing organization. They've just launched what they're calling the Faunalytics Lens, and it's an free AI research assistant, and the, it is grounded entirely in their huge library of six thousand human-written library entries, like actually written by humans. So it's not going out into the internet, so there's no worry that you're gonna get like, you know, you know sometimes you search something on AI you put it in, it tells you one thing, and then you search it a- the same thing again and it tells you somethig else 'cause it found something else.
Well, we're not gonna have that problem here 'cause everything has-- everything that this AI has available to it is vetted. So you can pose a question, just plain language, nothing tricky about it, it gives you an answer plus citations to the source. And, uh,
Jasmin Singer: That's awesome
Mariann Sullivan: people craft campaigns and, and, um, give y- give advice on advocacy and, and I, I just think this is incredibly, incredibly valuable.
It mentions that it's hon-- this is also rare. It's honest about gaps. When the evidence is thin or a question isn't well covered, it says so rather than guessing. AI f- like does-- AI does sometimes guess, but it also just keeps looking until it finds the most obscure, like unreliable piece of evidence that there is. It's completely free. No account is needed, and you can try it at Faunalytics, that's F-A-U-N-A-L-Y-T-I-C-S.org/lens. Cool, right?
Jasmin Singer: Okay. We'll link to all of that. So, so cool. I love that. And also I'm very intrigued by the ways that AI can be used to support activists.
Mariann Sullivan: You're in love. You're in love. You don't need humans anymore.
Jasmin Singer: Well, I watched this movie that I think everyone should watch. It's called, uh, Have Fun, Don't Die, but there's another thing.
Mariann Sullivan: Oh, right. You did tell me
Jasmin Singer: yeah, it's there's something Have-
Mariann Sullivan: the preview and I was like, "Oh, not now.
Jasmin Singer: It's called Good Luck, Ha- Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die. And, and it's, it's streaming now, uh, I think on Hulu, or you could rent it. And it is about AI and, and how we're, you know, someone from the future comes back to now and basically is like, "This isn't gonna go well unless we intervene now and, like, create safety measures."
And it's, it's just a hilarious movie. There's action in it. There's like... But it's deeply political and deeply thoughtful. It reminded me of Don't Look Up in, in, in a way.
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah
Jasmin Singer: And so am I in love? Y- y- yeah. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm in lust with AI, but I also...
Mariann Sullivan: that is, that's disturbing.
Jasmin Singer: But
Mariann Sullivan: disturbing images
Jasmin Singer: AI is a really good kisser.
Mariann Sullivan: Alright.
Jasmin Singer: but I'm also d- but I'm
Mariann Sullivan: on.
Jasmin Singer: I'm also like, you know, I also think it'll probably destroy us.
So it's,
Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
Jasmin Singer: know
Mariann Sullivan: many, like many romances
Jasmin Singer: Exactly. Uh, on that note, um, everything is the same, and yet everything has changed. Alright, let's, let's, let's call it. I think this was a good discussion about all of the things that are changing and not changing and potentially changing. Thank you for tuning in.
Mariann Sullivan: glad you enjoyed it.
Jasmin Singer: I enjoyed it. That's really the important thing.
But actually I did, because I'm always privy to your perspectives and I get a front row seat...
Mariann Sullivan: said. Nice
Jasmin Singer: it's true. It's not a save. That's why we started Our Hen House. You know that. Uh, to create a virtual and digital and electronic, uh, leash between the two of us so that I can always be the first one to know what you think about something.
Mariann Sullivan: What
Jasmin Singer: Thank y-
Mariann Sullivan: what is, what was it that we said earlier? You said that's why we're good together
Jasmin Singer: Oh, that, um, there's, that I, I've got the energy and you have the knowledge.
Mariann Sullivan: All right.
Jasmin Singer: It was something like that. I was like,
Mariann Sullivan: well,
Jasmin Singer: I-
Mariann Sullivan: said I, I, I've got great energy and I have no knowledge, and then I said I'm kind of the opposite
Jasmin Singer: Yeah. There you go, and that's Our Hen House in a nutshell. Thank you for tuning in for the energy and the knowledge and the lack thereof. Subscribe, like, comment on your favorite podcatcher on YouTube, whatever.
Donate and become a flock member at ourhenhouse.org/support and catch our full interview tomorrow. It is adorable because our guests Joanna and Jared Zelman are adorable, and I just really loved this interview, so I, I look forward to getting your thoughts on it, and we will talk to you then.
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