Undercover Videos, Vegan Supermarket Fantasies, and A Water Fight Nobody Asked For | Rising Anxieties

Um, don't forget we're a podcast. We're on YouTube. Please subscribe, hit like wherever you listen. And let's get into it because it turns out our very favorite writer is indeed worried.

Uh, and, and she's worried about stuff that you do. This is Hannah Thompson-Weeman from Meatingplace, and, uh, she works through... I think she w- she's the president or something or the CEO of the Animal Agriculture Alliance. And, um, she's writing about, well, you know, I think it's mostly about this recent Mercy For Animals, uh, undercover investigation.

They're pretty upset about it, and the thing they're upset... But it's not just that. It's a trend she sees. I don't know whether this is new or not, but, but they seem to think it's new, so maybe I- I've been missing something, that, that the target of, of press on undercover investigations is shifting from the quote, unquote farm, uh, to a retailer.

I think that we've always tried to do that, just to... Maybe in the past it's been harder to track who's selling what to whom, I don't know. But, but, um, she points out that the footage may allegedly come from the farm, but the campaign is designed to reach consumers through a name they already know. I, I just wanna address that allegedly a bit.

Like, if they had any legitimate information that it did not come from, from the place th- that Mercy For Animals says it comes from, believe me, there would be lawsuits being filed. There would be, uh, there would be a lot going on. Um, all right, and it wouldn't be very hard to prove that footage, I mean, assuming there's any kind of identifying information at all in the footage that, uh, that it's from your place.

Like, like, like Mercy For Animals really wants to lie about that. They wanna find, like, places that are doing horrible things, take film of it, and then pretend it's coming from somewhere else. That, that would make a lot of sense. All right, but that's just a detail. The real, the real point that she wants to make is that they're, uh, targeting, um, targeting retailers, which in this case is, is Costco.

Uh, and, um, she points out that animal welfare has long been supported through science-based practices, veterinary oversight, employee training, and continuous improvement. Are you, aren't you reassured? But activist campaigns today are often designed to shape public perception of an entire brand, regardless of where the footage originated.

What? Like, what is she even talking about? Yes, it is designed to shape public perception to fit with the truth. That's what it's designed to do. And, uh, she wants everybody to be prepared for this. I just... I, I have another article on, on really the same topic, and I just wanna point out right at the beginning, keep, keep an eye open, and I'm not cheating, I swear, for any indication that they think that the way to address this is to prove the way prove the way they treat the animals.

That is not on the list of things that, uh, things that, that should be done. But there're a lot of things that she thinks could be done, how they can prepare for this, and it extends well beyond the farm gate. Uh, communication teams, executives, procurement staff, legal counsel, animal welfare specialists, and customer-facing employees all have a role in responding effectively.

Organizations should regularly evaluate how they would respond if, uh, they became the subject of such a campaign. Um, building trust should be part of that preparation, so this is stuff you can do before, uh, you know, before it happens. Does it include improving the way animals are treated? Well, you tell me.

Companies that consistently communicate about animal care, continuous improvement - maybe they mean improvement in the way animals are treated, or maybe they just mean improvement in the way they're communicating - employee training, and responsible livestock production establish a credibility long before they're responding to criticism.

So they're saying that you should prepare ahead of time. I guess they are saying that you should prepare ahead of time by doing a better job. They are. They are. But apparently, once the response comes in, the, the, that doesn't like, doesn't make any... I guess my point is that they're not denying anything happened here.

That's the, like, the, nothing, nothing in here is that, uh, maybe, maybe what shows up in the footage was their idea of good animal welfare. I don't know, 'cause they're not saying that, uh, that what happened here was wrong, and she points out that, quote, "Undercover video campaigns are unlikely to disappear."

Now, why would that be? Hmm. Why would they keep doing this? Hmm. But she's also concerned about the fact that they are continuing to evolve. The farm may be where the footage is captured, so I guess she thinks it actually is. But it is often no longer the primary target. The farm isn't the true target anymore.

Your brand is. Well, that is good news. Like I say, I'm not sure that's new news, but, uh, uh, I think there's always been an attempt to do that. But all of a sudden they're really, really concerned about it.

It's cool. Alright, I have another article on the same thing. It's from, um, Pork Business and, um... Oh dear, I have to find it. Why sow housing is no longer just a farm issue.

See the same theme. From undercover videos to legislative battles like Prop 12, the debate over sow housing has evolved into a strategic campaign to control how farmers operate. This is by Abby Kornegay, also from the Animal Agriculture Alliance, which is really up in arms about this whole thing. Um, all right, so they're talking about pork here, so they're not talking about the Mercy For Animals, um, undercover investigation, which was chickens.

Um, though she mentions it, but she wants to get in on the, the same theme. Over the past several years, animal rights activist organizations have increasingly built campaigns around retailers, restaurant chains, and major food brands. And she, in order to bring it into pork, she's talking about a campaign by Animal Equality last year.

Um, and they, they didn't go after the farm. They went after Ahold Delhaize. Uh, who is that? Is that a... I guess it's a company. Yeah, it's a company. Um, I guess they sell dead pigs. Um, so in the pork space, and she does refer to the Mercy For Animals investigation but points out it's about chickens. In the pork space, the battleground continues to be over, quote, "commitments" related to sow housing.

We put commitments in quotes because they're, we don't think, we, we don't actually think they were commitments. So we're gonna put them in quotes. "With animal rights groups pressuring the supply chain to ban gestation stalls," they changed it from crates to stalls, "while the issue is often framed as a simple choice between stalls and group housing, the reality is considerably more complex."

They like to make everything very complicated. Like, it's very complicated whether you should keep a, a, a nursing pig in a, um, in, in a, in a, uh, in a space no bigger than she is. Like, that's... It's so complicated. Like, I just can't figure it out. Can you? Um, as you well know, I'll go back to the article, animal welfare is a major pillar of the agricultural community.

Oh my God. But activist campaigns today are often designed to influence the public mindset. Yeah, they are. Like we're trying to influence the public mindset towards an entire brand, regardless of where the footage comes from and the science behind what they may see. Actually, it's not even just a brand.

We're trying to influence the public about the entire product of dead pig. Um, so this points out that activist campaigns and animal welfare initiatives could also create momentum for ballot initiatives. Oh, we don't like those. Legislation, oh my God, we don't like that. And litigation. California's Prop 12 is one prominent example.

Boy, they sure hate Prop 12 in the pork industry. They hate anything that gets in their way, but, uh, they really hate that a lot. Undercover video campaigns are unlikely to disappear. That's an actual quote from the last article. They actually-- They obviously coordinated these articles. But the way they are used continues to evolve, and, uh, and they're worried, yeah, about targeting the brands.

So I don't, I, you know, I think it's really important, and I think we've always done it, and I think it's good that we're do- we're, but that these organizations, I shouldn't say we 'cause I'm not doing any of it, um, but that these organizations are really able to find the brands in which to target, but, but, uh, really it's the industry itself that, that, that is being targeted.

Uh, I'll just con- con- conclude with this quote. "Pork producers and their industry partners should be asking not whether they could become connected to an activist campaign, but whether they are prepared if they do." Again, the theme here isn't like, why don't you fix your practices so that, so that you don't become a target?

You know, just treat the pigs nicely. As people... treat the pigs how people think they should be treated. That seems fair. You know, people are buying the product. Produce the product in a way that you think people would think is ethical. Can't do that, can you? No, you can't. No, you can't. All right, enough.

Enough. I know I'm getting carried away. All right. This, this one is crazy. This is one is crazy. A super- this is from Watt Poultry, a supermarket without any animal protein origin products. Yes, I have been to such supermarkets. There's one in Berlin. I don't know of w- a- a- any that I've ever been to. Have I ever been to a total...

Well, I've been to small stores, but not a supermarket that were totally vegan. SIAVS. SIAVS is, is a, um, industry, uh, the International Animal Protein Trade Show. Um, it's in São Paulo in Brazil. And, um, and, uh, in, in honor of it, the Brazilian Animal Protein Association I just think it's funny when they call themselves protein.

Um, all right. Uh, has, has set up this supermarket. SIAVs in São Paulo, Brazil has created this peculiar and interesting idea of showing how our lives could be when shopping in a supermarket if we did not have the animal production industry. This is by Benjamin Ruiz. Like, like I said, I've, I've been to such supermarkets.

They're lovely. Um, but he doesn't think they'd be lovely. Of course, there would be no meat. He, he... But there'd be no eggs. There'd be no milk. Well, you know, I, I'm not really sure that's true. And it's different varieties, cheese, yogurt, or butter. Yeah, w- there would be those things, yeah, actually. There would be no pasta because one of the ingredients is eggs.

Like, eggs is not even in pasta most of the time. Um, occasionally, but not, not standardly. H- like, do you know nothing about being vegan, B- Benjamin? There'd be no bread. Interesting. I guess none of us have eaten bread in, in years. No chicken broth. Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, there'd be broth, but, uh, and chicken-flavored broth, but not...

It would be vegetable. Tuna fish cans. Oh my God, we wouldn't want to live without them. Mayonnaise. Well, there would be mayonnaise. Cookies or soups. Yes, there would be cookies and soups. There would also be no beer because beer clarification uses animal proteins in its process. I don't think all beer does that.

I'm, I admit I'm more up to date on wine, but, uh, that's not true, right? There's vegan beers. Um, no chocolate. Apparently chocolate is, is an animal product. And no candy at all because they contain milk. Well, you know, they, they don't. No value-added products like frozen pasta dishes or pizza. What are you talking-- Have they never heard about veganism?

Oh. There's no-- Also, the personal care items. No-- There's no soap. You know, uh, I stopped washing, like, 30 years ago. No toothpaste, no shampoo, no creams. Creams. Um, and he just thinks this was the best idea ever 'cause it made this so obvious. Like, how stupid are these people? Like, like, I just don't-- Well, I guess they're not stupid 'cause they're winning and we're not, but honest to God.

He thinks it was a superb idea. It must be replicated worldwide. I hope it is because, uh, I think this could-- we could really, uh, give them a run for their money on this one. Beyond the animal protein sector so regular citizens can get acquainted with our industry and understand that this is not a game. I would love regular citizens to understand that, uh, they stuff anim- dead animals in everything.

Um, it is life made easier. It is real life. No, it is totally fake. Totally fake. Oh my God. All right, Sentient Media, uh, our friends at Sentient Media. This is, this is unsurprising but depressing. This is by Seth Milstein. Congress promised non-dairy milk for schools: Where is it? A new law should expand milk options, but USDA rules left out the non-dairy milk provisions.

How surprising is this? Do you remember, like, months ago, we were talking about there was this new-- this whole milk thing where they were trying to get, uh, whole milk into the schools instead of skim, but, uh, somehow activists managed to get in there that there would be better access to plant-based milks.

Um, and of course, they wrote re- they wrote new regulations. They got the whole milk thing in there. They completely left out the plant-based stuff. So s- so, like, people, kids and their parents and whoever are still on the ground trying... They now have a law on their side, but it's not helping them at all.

It's not like it's being implemented. How-- Why did we not see this coming, or why did I not see this coming? You probably did. All right. For decades, Seth points out, federal law has made it nearly impossible for public schools to serve non-dairy milk. That changed in January when Congress passed a law that ostensibly reduced these barriers.

But a whole semester has come and gone, and many schools still aren't offering non-dairy milks at lunch. As a result, student activists and state governments are taking matters into their own hands. And, uh, so the law allows schools-- It, it doesn't require schools, but allows them to voluntarily just add non-dairy milk, you know, just put it out there.

L- Just make it available to students. And, um, but it, it also-- It used to be that you had to have a doctor's note in order to get non-dairy milk, and now you can just get a note from your parent, um, or a legal guardian or whatever, you know. Like, it's, it's a lot easier. Um But because of how subsidized dairy milk is, schools face a price differential of around 70 cents per carton of milk, uh, for cow's milk versus non-dairy milk.

I mean, that's a lot of money for a school that doesn't have a lot of money. That's per lunch. Um, so they have no incentive to put it out there because it costs them more money. Uh, they have a disincentive. California is, is introducing a subsidy to, um, help schools do that, which is great, but, you know, other states aren't.

And the second provision, which means that you don't have to get a doctor's note in order to require them to give you non-dairy milk, um, it-- One of the confusions in, in addition to the regulations not being written, and, you know, the, the confusion is because the regulations haven't been written.

The new provision applies only to lunches. So th-this means that schools are left in this weird situation wh- in which a student needs a doctor note for their morning meals, breakfast, if a school is serving breakfast as well, which in many lower income areas it is. And, um, and, and I guess maybe in other areas, too, but schools frequently serve both breakfast and lunch.

And so they would need a doctor's note for their morning meals, but not for their lunch in order to get non-dairy milk. Like, make it really, really hard for people. Uh, I think that's an accident. I don't know. So when the USDA issued its new regulations pursuant to this, uh, Whole Milk for Healthy Kids Act, um, it, it expanded the new rules about whole milk to appl- include breakfast in addition to lunch, um, but not for the non-dairy.

So they could do this with regulations. The-- But they, but they just didn't. So there's no federal regulation that implements the non-dairy provisions, and, you know, there's still these kids who are working on this, um, and, uh, going to Capitol Hill, met with, um, lawmakers. Apparently Elizabeth Warren, Ed Markey, both of Massachusetts, were very sympathetic.

John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, as you know, who's, you know, not, not long for that world, um, was not sympathetic. All right. So this, this young man, um, whose last name is Toomer, I can't find his first name. Anyway, he met with, uh, Cornyn's staff, and they said that the farm bill will take care of all of this.

Well, the farm bill, it-- the farm bill wasn't gonna take care of all of it, and, um, and it died anyway in the Senate last week. And, uh, and there was no mention of it in there anyway. They just lied to him. Like, "He's a kid. We can just lie to him." He also said that one staffer he met openly doubted that a doctor would ever advise a student to eat plant-based foods for medical reasons.

Unbelievable. So, uh, you know, I think this will get taken care of. It will just be a lot more, a lot more hard work. Maybe it won't get taken care of. I don't know. Maybe they'll screw it up more, and more, and more. But, uh, you know, it never ends. You get a law passed, that ain't enough. All right, from Hordes Darreyman.

If you're in Wisconsin, I'm sorry, uh, 'cause this is gonna be upsetting. This is by Tasha Schleus, who is a Wisconsin dairy farmer. Bringing dairy to Wisconsin classrooms. These people are so hard at work in our schools, it's unbelievable. All right, so instead of, um, having a, a, a, a pet in the classroom, which, you know, I think is problematic, uh, but I don't have to go there, you can adopt a cow.

This is virtually. And through the Adopt a Cow program, students can follow the growth and development of a dairy calf like mine, I mentioned she was a dairy farmer, while learning how quality animal care connects to the dairy products they enjoy every day. This is in school. Uh, so that's one thing.

It reaches more than 55,000 Wisconsin students each year. Um, but there's another thing. They, th- the dairy people, uh, are providing educators with free standards-aligned resources that help students explore Wisconsin dairy through classroom lessons, farm experiences, career exploration resources, and interactive virtual escape rooms.

Like, what the hell are interactive virtual escape rooms? Um, uh, uh, uh, I'm just perplexed by that. It's a growing collection of interactive virtual escape rooms. Middle and high school students work together to solve real-world dairy challenges while learning about topics such as caring for cows, protecting our land and water, and exploring careers in the dairy industry.

Like, I g- what are they escaping from? Uh, uh, reality, apparently. Uh, all right, this is just evil. I mean, these kids are in school. Talk about propaganda. Oh my God. According to survey data, after participating in Adopt a Cow, teachers reported trust in dairy farmers grew from 31% to 68%. Students' trust that milk is safe to drink rose from 53% to 77%.

Out and out propaganda. She does suggest that if you have children or grandchildren in school, know a teacher or work with a local youth organization, encourage them to explore, uh, DFW's educational resour- resources. DFW is, uh, dairy... I don't know, whatever they are. I would encourage you, uh, to, to, uh, if, if, if you know any of those people, teachers, if you're in Wisconsin and you know anybody, complain, 'cause this is outrageous.

This is outrageous. How dare they? All right, Dairy Farmers of Wisconsin is the name of the outfit.

Wow. No wonder people are stupid All right. Um, a little, uh, bird flu update. This is from Watt Poultry from Terrence O'Keefe. HPAI, that's, um, you know, high pathogenic avian influenza, in US i- is here to stay. Routine vaccination is not on the horizon. All right, so the point of this whole article is that, is that, uh, HPAI, or bird flu, is endemic in waterfowl.

They're not getting rid of it, and also other wildlife. It... You know, they've spread it everywhere, and it started in, in the farms, but now it's in all of the wild animals and wild birds, and they're not getting rid of it. We... And he thinks it's time that we face that. He thinks that the way we should face it is to start vaccinating our, um, poultry.

I don't even know how that works. Sounds hard, I have to say. Um, but there's a big problem. Uh, the export. There are a lot of countries that do not wanna import, um, vaccinated poultry. Uh, if the US were to initiate HPAI vaccination of poultry on a wide scale, even if only in one sector such as turkeys or table egg layers, the estimated losses to the US poultry industry would total around $13 billion.

Roughly $3 billion would result from lost trade of poultry products. Another 10 billion would come from the domestic market absorbing the volume of products that aren't exported, resulting in lower prices for producers. So they, um, could stop it. They could vaccinate all the poultry. I mean, I'm not suggesting that that's the answer.

Obviously, the answer is to end the poultry industry, but I'm pointing out they know how to stop it. They don't want to because it would cost them money in export, and they, they would have... They could still sell their products, but e- they would have to lower the prices for Americans. That's their argument. Um, all right.

The, the US Department of Agriculture asked the US' 80 poultry trading partners, so those are the other countries that are pissed off about vaccination, for a yes/no question a few years ago. He said the question was, "If the US vaccinated for high path avian influenza, would you shut us off?" He said that only around 25 countries responded, but that 8 of the US' 10 largest export countries did respond and all said they would shut off live and raw poultry imports from the US.

So that's why we have avian influenza. That's why all so many wild birds and wild animals have avian influenza. That's why. Nice. Nice. And that's why we're not stopping it. We could stop it. We wouldn't have to go through these things where we mass kill, uh, gazillions of chickens. Uh, we could stop it with vaccination

All right. One more, w- one more thing. This is also from Seth Milstein at Sentient Media, and I just, this is, I'm just gonna note this. It's not a, um... I mean, it's something we've talked about before. Everyone's talking about ChatGPT's water use. Almost no one's talking about what uses more, and of course, he's talking about, um, dairy farming in particular, but all farming, like, is, is huge water user, and everybody is...

Like, you hear this a lot about AI and data centers, about how much water they're using. And, um, uh, he quotes this guy, uh, Andy Maslen, who's a, a, a former head of Effective Altruism DC. We've got these two buildings in society. One of them has computers inside of it, and one has pigs having the absolute worst time you can imagine, and, like, one uses, like, 1,000 times more water than the other.

Why can't we think seriously about this? And this is the whole point, that, that farming animals uses unbelievable, unbelievable amounts of water. Nobody ever talks about it, whereas these data centers use a lot of water. I mean, I wouldn't say they use a lot of water. Like, each search, th- there's this phony information going on that each search uses a bottle of water.

That's not true. It's just that there are gazillions and gazillions of searches. So, like, you put them all together, and I don't know whether anybody really knows the numbers, but it's not nothing, that's for sure. It's, it, they... As this article points out, AI can, can consume quite a bit of water, especially when carried out at an industrialized scale by large corporations.

It's not nothing. But I think, and this is an excellent article. Goes into a lot of detail if this is something you want more, um, to know more about. And, um, he's, he says that the point isn't that AI is harmless. I mean, I think it's important for us to not say, "Well, th- they're not doing anything." It's just that, but rather that people are bad at estimating the environmental impacts of their own actions.

This is one particularly glaring example of that, and it matters because many people sincerely do want to reduce their environmental footprints. I think there's more going on here, that people don't like AI, or people are frightened by it. People don't understand it. It... I, you know, I use it all the time. I, I'm not a good user.

Like, it's, I don't use it intelligently, but it's there, and it answers my questions, and it's frequently right. Not always. Uh But it's scary. I mean, I think we're all scared. I mean, like, look at the tech overlords who are in charge of this stuff. They're all crazy. Um, do we really trust them to run the future of, of the be- of the world?

Uh, and, and so I think that's entering into this, whereas people are fine with farming animals. They have blocked off every single avenue of information and empathy that can enter into their hearts that would stop them from doing that. They've just-- They've chugged the Kool-Aid. They're, they're in it. We all know that.

I mean, we run into it all the time, and I think that that is having a huge... Uh, water use is really important, but for a lot of people, I think it's standing in for a much bigger anxiety about what's happening to intelligence and, and what's gonna happen and what the future's gonna look like, which is all, at this point, very hard to figure out.

Anyway, in case, in case you didn't have any anxiety before, uh, listening, I'm, I, I hope I've been able to, to repair that problem. so thanks for being here. It really means a lot, and don't forget to subscribe, like, and comment on your favorite podcatcher, YouTube, and tune into The Hen Report and the Our Hen House interview, and I can't wait to see you again.