The Hen Report: “Giant Mainstream Numbers” | Animal Rights Weekly News

This episode covers the Save Our Bacon Act getting shut down (again) in the Farm Bill, the delightfully weird strange-bedfellows saga around the Ridglan Farms beagle rescue, and the growing bipartisan side-eye toward animal testing — plus a Nonhuman Rights Project update and a preview of the next Animal Law Podcast episode.

The pork industry tried (again) to torch state animal protection laws like California’s Prop 12 — and got shut out for the sixth time in nearly 20 years. We’re savoring this one.
A juicy New Republic op-ed, How MAGA Stole Animal Rights from the Left, breaks down why Tomi Lahren and friends helped kill the bill, and dares Democrats to stop assuming animal lovers will vote blue no matter what.
Over 2,000 beagles are finally out of cages after activists took on Ridglan Farms, a Wisconsin breeding-and-research facility — and yes, RFK Jr. tried to take a victory lap.
The Economist says the quiet part out loud: a bipartisan coalition is nudging the NIH, FDA, and EPA toward ditching animal testing for smarter, non-animal methods.
Bonus round: Nonhuman Rights Project updates out of Michigan and Hawaii, a sneak peek at the Animal Law Podcast’s episode on activist Taj Uppal, and a heartfelt book rec, Penelope: A Love Story.

RESOURCES

- INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
  
  Jasmin Singer: Welcome to The Hen Report from Our Hen House. I'm Jasmin Singer
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I'm Mariann Sullivan
  
  Jasmin Singer: And it is very exciting to be here today. We have a lot to discuss.
  
  Show More Transcript
  
  Uh, one of the exciting things is that we have a sponsorship that we want to tell you about that we're excited about, uh, because it's something near and dear to our hearts.
  
  So if you've ever wondered how you can turn your passion for animals into a career that creates lasting change, and I know you have because that's partly why you're here, Vermont Law and Graduate School may be able to help you make it a reality. The Animal Law and Policy Institute at Vermont Law and Graduate School is home to one of the nation's leading animal law programs, preparing the next generation of advocates to shape laws, influence policy, and protect animals.
  
  And Mariann, we always say to each other, not when we're recording only, how much animal law is having a moment right now, and certainly it's...
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I, I don't know whether it's just me, because obviously it's my area of interest, but I just feel like law is really where it's at at the moment.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Mhm
  
  Mariann Sullivan: It's like, there's a lot of other things that are very, very frustrating, and of course law is always frustrating. But, but people make... I don't know, it just seems like there are avenues for real change there, and it, it, it's not divided.
  
  Like, people just... You know, I, I really love the fact in the law that you look for an opening and you take it. You don't have to decide philosophically what your, uh, theory of change is, even though I consider that very important in advocacy. In law you don't have to. You're just looking for a chance to make a change and you do it, and I think that's very valuable at this moment when people's theories of changes are all over the lot.
  
  Anyway.
  
  That's not part of our announcement from Vermont Law.
  
  Jasmin Singer: No, that's-- but it's, it's im-
  
  Mariann Sullivan: them into
  
  Jasmin Singer: It's important. And, and whether you're pursuing a law degree with a concentration in animal law, an animal law LLM, a graduate certificate in animal protection policy, or a master's degree in animal protection policy, you'll gain the knowledge and the practical skills to tackle some of the biggest challenges facing animals today.
  
  I also think it's a deeply satisfying road to go down if you are passionate about changing the world for animals. So you can learn from nationally recognized faculty, engage with real-world legal and policy issues, and join a community dedicated to advancing meaningful protections for farmed animals, wildlife, companion animals, and animals used in research and entertainment.
  
  Your career could take you so many places, to nonprofit advocacy organizations, government agencies, policymaking roles, litigation, academia, or really anywhere that you can help create a more just future for animals. So if you're ready to discover what's possible through the Animal Law and Policy Institute with degrees that can be earned residentially or online at Vermont Law and Graduate School, visit vermontlaw.edu/animallaw to learn more and start building a career that advances legal protections for animals.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Don't you feel like it's the time?
  
  Jasmin Singer: Oh, yeah.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Like things are going... I mean, I know that sounds ridiculous 'cause everything's such a disaster at the moment, but change, change is in the air. We have to make sure that some of that change happens for animals
  
  Jasmin Singer: I think it, I think it's, like, an unbelievably exciting time to be changing the world for animals. Well, those two usually go hand-in-hand.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: They do. They
  
  Jasmin Singer: So before we get to some examples of that, uh, just a quick reminder about the Our Hen House podcasts. We are on the air multiple times a week, so Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesdays, The Hen Report, which is this, on Thursdays, and the long-form interview comes out on Fridays.
  
  Bonus for flock members comes out on Mondays. Remember, you could listen to us, you could watch us, you could do both at the same time. Uh, we're on YouTube. We are also on any podcatcher where you like to listen to podcasts. So please hit subscribe, hit like, comment wherever you listen. Okay.
  
  There's some updates we have for you today, and we're starting off with good news, and I know, when do we ever start off with good news? So let's really savor this one. We're probably all familiar with the Save Our Bacon Act, but I'm going to just kind of revisit a few things that you might already know.
  
  On August 6th, the Senate Agriculture Committee met to mark up the Farm Bill, and here's what happened. Nothing. The committee did not pass a Farm Bill, and crucially, crucially, the so-called Save Our Bacon Act was left out of the legislation entirely. It did not, as Sara Amundson of the Humane World Action Fund put it, "See the light of day."
  
  And if you're new here, this might be new for you, and welcome to Our Hen House, by the way. So let me just briefly catch you up on what the Save Our Bacon Act actually is because, uh, the name is doing a lot of work, and we, we...
  
  Mariann Sullivan: The annoyingly and hideously offensive.
  
  Jasmin Singer: The... No, totally. This is the pork industry's latest attempt to use the federal Farm Bill to wipe out state level farm animal protection laws, and so we're talking about laws like California's Prop 12 and Massachusetts...
  
  Massachusetts's, that's really hard to say, Question 3, which is laws that voters passed that give a pregnant pig enough room to, you know, turn around. That's the radical agenda that we're dealing with here, room to turn around. And, and the thing that gets me is that this is not a new fight, and we talk about this all the time.
  
  Like, we keep circling around these same issues, and Congress has been rejecting this exact play for nearly, like, two decades. The King Amendment failed in three separate Farm Bill debates, then the EATS Act failed, and now it's our... the Save Our Bacon Act on the ropes. Never ends.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: And they tried to get to the co- to, to go to the, um, Supreme Court to also, at a different legal tactic to, to have Prop 12 held unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court said, like this Supreme Court said, "Nah, it's fine." But they won't give up, the pork industry. They're, you know, they're, they're very, um, relentless.
  
  Jasmin Singer: And by Humane World Action Fund's count, that's at least six failures. Six. So yeah, I, I mean, at what point does the pork lobby look in the mirror and decide...
  
  Mariann Sullivan: up, and I'm not g- saying we're, we're gonna win. Like, you know,
  
  Jasmin Singer: Right
  
  Mariann Sullivan: This is a good development, but they're just coming back... When they come back from recess, they're gonna be reconsidering a Farm Bill. We don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know what, what exchanges are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, uh, so.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah. If they could call us and let us know. Well, and I w- I want to read to you what Sarah Amundson said because I think she nailed it. She said that, uh, committee members, and by the way, this includes Chairman John Boozman, who's a Republican, and ranking member Amy Klobuchar, who's a Democrat, quote, "Wisely chose not to cave to the stubborn faction of the pork industry that keeps losing just to reopen the same debate and allow more animal cruelty.
  
  That's not agriculture policy," she says. "That's special interest politics at its worst." Now, special interest politics at its worst, hold onto that phrase because it's gonna come back in a big way in our next story, spoiler alert. But, uh, yeah, so y- Mariann, what do you think? You've watched this preemption fight through every one of its incarnations.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I'm not saying they're not gonna win. I'm saying that they had a big setback
  
  Jasmin Singer: Mhm
  
  Mariann Sullivan: and I hope they're not gonna win, but I don't, I don't know. I will say that was a really well-coordinated effort by the animal protection movement, like all different entities within the animal protection movement. I, I was happy to see that.
  
  People really worked on this. This took a lot, this took a lot of lobbying, a lot of hard work, a lot... You know, I feel like it was a very sophisticated effort on the part of our movement, and I am really happy to see that. I think it bodes well for the future.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Totally. Uh, but, but okay, here, here's where the episode gets kind of complicated because when I tell you who helped kill the Save Our Bacon Act, who was out there working to defeat a bill that, let's remember, was a Republican bill, the list includes Tomi Lahren, Laura Loomer, Mike Cernovich, Republican Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, and I don't know if you just did a spit take into your coffee, which I, I would've, but I just finished my coffee.
  
  This is our next story. So The New Republic just published a piece with a headline,
  
  Mariann Sullivan: good
  
  Jasmin Singer: yeah, and the headline is How MAGA Stole Animal Rights from the Left. Subtitle, And How We Can Steal it Back. I have so many feelings, so let's just walk through this together.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: This is by Aaron Regenberg and Astra Taylor, who I don't think has been on the podcast, but her sister has, Sonora Taylor.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Interesting.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Astra Taylor, I've always had my eye on her. She does amazing work, not s- exclusively on animal stuff, but yeah, this is an amazing article.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah, let's, and let's walk through it together because I, I personally think this might be the most important and perhaps the most uncomfortable conversation happening in our movement right now.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I'm not uncomfortable. I'm fine.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Okay , good to know. Mariann's fine. Uh, the piece opens with Ridglan Farms, and obviously that name is going to ring a bell because Ridglan is the dog breeding and research facility in Wisconsin.
  
  Uh, you already know about it if you've been paying attention, uh, to Our Hen House anyway, and, and certainly animal protection news. They breed beagles because beagles are docile and eager to please, which is so heartbreaking. Used to, used to, used to. And, uh, and, and in March, activists went in and, and started this, this huge sort of domino effect of liberation.
  
  They liberated 22 beagles, and then in April a th- like 1,000 people came for this attempted mass open rescue of more, the more than 2,000 dogs still inside and, and like long story short, the, all of the dogs have now been released and
  
  Mariann Sullivan: A lot of activists are still s- facing very serious charges.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah. Uh, but
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Let's not forget that.
  
  Jasmin Singer: It, it-- no, absolutely. And two, but 2,000 dogs are alive and, and out of cages. And, and RFK Jr. and Agricultural Secretary Brooke Rollins put out a joint video taking credit for it as a major win for animal welfare. Now let that sink in, because I can already hear half of you, like, yelling at me through the YouTube machine or whatever you're listening to this.
  
  I'm yelling, too. This is, of course, the same administration
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I, I dis- I don't know why, I don't think anybody's yelling.
  
  Jasmin Singer: You don't?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Like, if people want to agree on an issue, even if they disagree on many other issues, w- where, like, I don't mind strange bedfellows.
  
  Jasmin Singer: No, I don't, I don't either. I, I agree. Okay.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Saying that that means I agree with RFK Jr. on everything or virtually anything, but, but if we agree on this...
  
  And, and of course, this is not, this is specific people in the right and specific in- issues. I mean, they're certainly not on board on every a- animal issue. Uh, but this one, yeah.
  
  Jasmin Singer: I'm down with Strange Bedfellows. Maybe I'm not hearing people yelling, maybe I'm hearing their eye muscles rolling. Maybe there're just so many eyeballs rolling right now that it's making... that it's loud. Th- because this i- this is the same administration that just rolled back the Endangered Species Act.
  
  They went to the Supreme Court to shield these, uh, glyphosate manufacturers from liability. Um, RFK Jr., as you know, promotes the carnivorous diet, like big time, and the article is very clear-eyed about it. It calls out the-- they call it the fundamental incoherence and hypocrisy of the right's relationship to animal welfare.
  
  Now remember, as I just said
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Welcome to the real world where ev- virtually everybody except us has a completely cockamamie attitude towards, towards a- animals. I mean, you know,
  
  Jasmin Singer: So, yeah
  
  Mariann Sullivan: it's par for the course. People make no sense when it comes to animals.
  
  Jasmin Singer: So remember the, the Save Our Bacon Act that we were just talking about is a Republican bill. Some animals like the beagles and the bald eagles and the pet squirrels, some, some animals still get compassion. And, you know, it's crazy 'cause billions is...
  
  Mariann Sullivan: it makes no sense
  
  Jasmin Singer: makes no sense. Compassion as a hierarchy is inexplicable to me. Some animals matter because they're ours, and everyone else is expendable. But that's kind of why, why Our Hen House started, uh, 17 nearly 17 years ago. But here's the part of this piece that I actually think is a headline.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Everybody should read it
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah. But here's the part that I think actually is a headline, and it really matters to me. It, it's not about the right at all, so I was kind of terrified when I saw that headline, I admit. And then I realized it's about us. It's about the left. I mean, listen to the numbers.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: About,
  
  Jasmin Singer: The, the-- it's a progressive people.
  
  Uh, yes, and over 85% of Republicans and Democrats agree that animal testing should be phased out. Eight out of 10 voters consider preventing farm animal cruelty a moral concern. 72% say that they're more likely to vote for a candidate who protects endangered species. These aren't fringe numbers. These are huge, giant mainstream numbers.
  
  And, and you know, it's weird because when 1,000 people showed up in Wisconsin for one of these large-- the largest direct actions against a corporate animal facility in my memory, it was covered by mainstream outlets and right-wing outlets, but it barely registered in liberal and left media
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I read that in this article and somehow I hadn't realized that until, until I heard it. And it's, it's just a disgrace.
  
  Jasmin Singer: A disgrace. And Justin Marceau, who is of course an animal law professor and a friend of, uh, the Our Hen House world, uh... Where is he, where is he at again?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: University of Denver.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah, okay. He put it this way: Democrats, quote, "view people who care about animals as a fringe subset of people who care about climate.
  
  They seem to think it's just not a constituency that they could lose. I think they're wrong about that."
  
  And there's also an, an anonymous activist quoted in this piece who said something that really got me going. They said, and I'm paraph- I'm cleaning it up slightly here, "If you tell people to buzz off enough times, they're gonna buzz off, and that's what the left has been doing to animal rights activists for decades."
  
  Oof. Because haven't we all felt that? I mean, that assumption that caring about animals is a lifestyle quirk, it's a distraction from the, quote, "real fights." It's, it's not worth, it, it's not worth our time.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I, this, this article really spoke to me.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Yeah, I mean, that zero-sum framing is, is so separate from reality that it's mind-boggling to me.
  
  Industrial agriculture is corporate consolidation. It is worker exploitation. It is immigrant exploitation and environmental destruction. Fighting for animals is not a detour from fighting the oligarchy. It's the same fight.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I, the, the whole, uh, also you even see this within the animal protection movement, I think. This whole image of American farmers as sort of small business people who, uh, who, you know, are just, just trying to survive in a difficult... That, it's ridiculous. This is a huge corporate enterprise controlled by money.
  
  Frequently they are family farms 'cause they're owned by one very, very, very rich person who has a family.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Right.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I know I say that all the time,
  
  Jasmin Singer: It's a family
  
  Mariann Sullivan: but it drives me crazy.
  
  Jasmin Singer: this shorthand
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Like, like, you, like I said, you even see this within the animal protection movement, acting like the farmers are sort of just victims.
  
  They're not. It's, they're the landed gentry. They own most of the land and, and they own most of the animals, and they're making a lot of money.
  
  Jasmin Singer: And weirdly, the short
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Not all of them. I'm not saying there are no small farmers.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Well, it's, you know, it is this, it is this shorthand that people kind of hide behind, and it doesn't mean very much. And, and what I think is weird is that the sharpest one-liner in the article came from a conservative, Liam Gray of the Wilberforce Institute, who said that the divide on animals is feeling less like left versus right and more like people versus special interests, which didn't we just hear that?
  
  Because that's Sara Amundson's Farm Bill quote from the other direction. It, I mean, when Tomi Lahren and the Humane World Action Fund are accidentally saying the same sentence, something's moving. I mean, Mar- what, Mariann,
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Let
  
  Jasmin Singer: do you think?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I, I don't know whether you have the rest of that quote before you, but I happened to highlight
  
  Jasmin Singer: Okay, go ahead
  
  Mariann Sullivan: just give the next sentence. "And the more the Democrats don't respond to that and side with the special interests and take for granted that they have the animal people behind them, I think the more it's going to hurt them." And that is the truth.
  
  They take us for granted. They think that people, either w- we're, we're basically liberal-minded and we won't vote on the animal issue, we'll just ignore it, or that we'll just think that, well, they're not as bad as the Republicans. Well, you know, that day is over. Like, people have to start trying to get the support of animal people.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Mariann, the piece ends with Marceau saying that the best case scenario is that the movement on the right awakens the left to animals. Do you buy that, or are we watching compassion get weaponized in a way that we'll regret?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: No, I, uh, I mean, don't know whether I buy it. I agree with him that it's the best case scenario. I think it could happen. I think we are in a moment where people are ready to think outside the box, and that box, you know, is a box in which people never look out of to see what's really going on with animals.
  
  And, and so, uh, I'm, I'm not gonna say, "No, that's ridiculous," because I hope it's true.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Well, if you want proof that this strange bedfellows moment is producing actual structural change and not just viral beagle content, our last story is it, because The Economist, not exactly a, a vegan zine, just published a piece on the bipartisan coalition taking aim at animal research itself. So The Economist ran a piece, uh, in early August, How a bipartisan coalition is taking aim at animal research, and the fact is that this story is in The Economist's science section, and, and that tells you how mainstream it's become.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: And we have talked about this, I mean, in bits and pieces, but this really brings it, brings it all together. And from a, you know, from outside the movement perspective, just them noticing, "Well, something's going on here."
  
  Jasmin Singer: Mm-hmm. By the way, my, my 18-and-a-half-year-old chihuahua is downstairs barking, agreeing that something is going on here, so I apologize if you're hearing. Okay, good.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: hear him,
  
  Jasmin Singer: All right.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: else
  
  Jasmin Singer: So here, here's the shape of the article. Uh, you've got progressives and mainstream Democrats who've cared about animals in labs forever, and that they're now joined by these right-wing populists and the MAGA movement, who frame animal testing as government waste and government overreach.
  
  So that's like, you know... I, I don't know. What does that look like con- concretely? Bipartisan bills targeting these painful NIH experiments on dogs and cats, legislation to let lab animals actually retire to sanctuaries, to homes, instead of being killed when the study ends. The EPA has a goal of fully replacing animal testing by 2035.
  
  The NIH has put $87 million into developing non-animal research methods. The FDA has a published roadmap to phase out animal testing. Federal labs are scaling down primate research and research on dogs and cats. Universities are feeling this scrutiny and starting to move away from animal-dependent pipelines on their own.
  
  And our buddy, RFK Jr., okay, not our buddy, has even met with PETA about converting NIH-backed primate research centers into sanctuaries, and reportedly, the NIH has actually followed up. I mean, this is
  
  Mariann Sullivan: thi- this is, this is an interesting development, and I think there are a lot of dangers here. And, and it's again, like, I mean, 'cause, you know, the MAGA movement or the MAHA movement, um,
  
  Jasmin Singer: Or the mahahahahaha movement
  
  Mariann Sullivan: like the anti-science bent, and I don't like the anti-vax bent and everything. But that is a big movement and, and for years and years and years, uh, research industry has just ignored, uh, animal activists, ignored the fact that it isn't just a bunch of PETA, uh, subscribers who, who are horrified here. Like, it's virtually everybody with a... Th- there is a huge constituency out there for being against the horrible things they do to animals and, and, and wanting them to clean up their act as much as they can, and they have ignored that.
  
  They have been hostile. They have been, uh, just obstructive. They have acted like animal activists are the enemy. And, you know, now it's coming home to roost. I have mixed feelings about this because I don't like the whole anti-science bent. I just like the anti-experimentation on animals. And if they would...
  
  They need to be spending a lot more time on finding those alternatives, which, you know, instead of fighting them
  
  Jasmin Singer: But a huge driver here isn't ethics, it is science. I mean, they're called the new approach methods or NAMs.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. Absolutely.
  
  Jasmin Singer: O- organoids, organs on chip- on a chip, AI models
  
  Mariann Sullivan: We need the science establishment to be pushing that and not just us pushing it from the outside and, like, getting them to reluctantly adopt new methods.
  
  And the science is there! The science is there.
  
  Jasmin Singer: The argument that proponents make is not, you know, be nicer to mice or whatever. It's that these technologies can give us more human relevant data than y- a beagle or a monkey ever could. We knew that. We also knew that veggie burgers were really good 10 years ago.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Yeah. And we also knew that it's fine to be nice to mice. They're, they're lovely little animals.
  
  Jasmin Singer: And but this,
  
  Mariann Sullivan: with saying that
  
  Jasmin Singer: but I do think that this reframe, especially in an outlet like this, does change everything because suddenly the choice isn't compassion versus cures. It's, it's better science versus, I don't know, inertia? Uh, but in fa- in fairness, the, the counterargument, medical researchers and biotech investors warn that if we cut animal models too fast before the alternatives can repli- yeah, blah, blah, blah, before they can replicate these multi-organ living systems could slow down treatments people are waiting on.
  
  It is a debate. I- but notice where
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Maybe that means you should've gotten on board a long time ago and you didn't, so whose fault is this?
  
  Jasmin Singer: But, and, but notice where the debate is now. It's not, you know, it, it's not should we move past animal testing, it's how fast can we get there? So
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Yeah, that's a good point.
  
  Jasmin Singer: That's a different, that's a really different place than where we started. Okay. So let's zoo- sort of zoom out because these are three stories, but I think they're one story.
  
  The, it's a pork industry power grab dies in committee, 2,000 beagles walk out of a lab, the federal research establishment starts unwinding animal testing, and in all of these stories, the winning coalition was bigger than our usual us.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Yeah.
  
  Jasmin Singer: So I don't trust, I don't trust this administration as far as I could, you know, like throw my, my coffee at them, but I'm not going to 'cause I, I need my coffee.
  
  But, but some of what's happening on the right is opportunism. Some of it is animal nationalism, and some of it is maybe genuine care showing up in a place that we didn't expect it, strange bedfellows. But our job as animal protection advocates isn't to hand the animals over to whoever's polling on them this week, right?
  
  It's to make sure that, I hate the word compassion, but compassion for animals doesn't belong to a party. It never did.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Who hates the word compassion?
  
  Jasmin Singer: Uh, well, but yet I'm not the only person who agrees with us on animal testing because 85% of this country agrees with us on animal testing. Eight, eight in 10 agree on farm animal cruelty. I mean, this is-- I, I don't know if this is stealing it back from the right. I think it's steal- stealing it back from irrelevance.
  
  And yes, we all know that because we listen to Our Hen House and, and that means you care about animals deeply. But it's not our message that's shifting. It's, it's not our message that's shifting. It's, it's, it's our message has somehow penetrated the mainstream, and that message is shifting.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Interestingly, uh, you know, as you pointed out, the way it has p- penetrated the mainstream is starting on the right, and the left better wake up.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Totally. I love it. Oh, so, uh, before we get off the subject of policy and law, you have the Animal Law podcast coming up next week, right? So tell us about it. What to expect.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Well, it-- I mean, it's an unusual-- Well, it's not unusual because I've interviewed DXE activists before, but this is very early stage in Taj Uppal's, uh, trial, um, or, uh, prosecution. Uh, we don't know whether there will be a trial at this point. Um, and he is one of the activists who was arrested in a DXE effort, uh, over a year ago, rescuing goats from a, a Whole Food supplying, um, goat farm in, in California.
  
  They tried heroically to get, um, action before they went in and took the goats, and then they did come in and take the goats and, um, and now a year later, they're being prosecuted, and there's some very interesting legal issues. And also he's a very interesting guy, so, um, if you see-- if... Check out his Substack.
  
  He's very young. I mean, it's easy for me to say that 'cause I think everybody's very young, but he actually is very young. He's only been out of law school for a couple of years. His parents are, um... He writes so movingly about his parents, who are devastated by the fact that their son is, like, being charged with felonies and has done this, and he was, he was, you know, a very successful law student.
  
  He's, um-- He also writes about his religion, Sikhism, which I don't know, uh, is it Sika- think is better pronunciation. I don't know that we've ever interviewed anybody whose, you know, at least in part their, um, ethics and their worldview comes from the Sikh religion. So I, I want to get into that a little bit, even though it's not really a legal issue.
  
  I'm looking forward to the interview.
  
  Jasmin Singer: I'm looking forward to it too. You've been really on fire lately with the Animal Law podcast and, uh, it's exciting to hear, especially given all of the stories that we've covered today and all of the stories that are coming up in the world of animal law.
  
  Okay, I have a shameless plug before we end. And by the way, did I miss any articles?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Well, we were going to mention, I don't think we have to spend a lot of time on it, but just an update on what's going on in The Nonhuman Rights Project.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Okay. Why don't you do that and I will then give my shameless plug?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: They, um, they lost their case in Michigan, which was about, um, chimpanzees, a bunch of chimpanzees in some, some pathetic zoo in Wallace, Michigan, the DeYoung Family Zoo. uh, the, the Michigan Supreme Court in July declined to hear the case, uh, which left the lower court rulings, dismissing their, um, case intact. But, uh, th-they, um, there was a, there was a lovely dissent in the-- when the Michigan Supreme Court declined to take the case, one of the judges dissented and wanted to take the case, Justice Elizabeth Welch, and she questioned whether legal frameworks should evolve with modern scientific insights into animal cognition and emotion.
  
  I just like the way that, that when they're bringing these cases, they may lose, but they're capturing a few hearts and minds in the process, uh, which is sometimes all you can hope for 'cause these are very, you know, these, these are huge cases, and it would mean a lot to courts to, like, do something so dramatic, and most courts, you know, are not being in, that interested in being dramatic.
  
  They are seeking a rehearing in that, um, or reconsideration in that case, I think it would be very unusual for a Supreme Court to reconsider its, um, declining to, to, to take up a case, but you never know. And there's also a, a, a cour- a state court that, th-and where the highest court did, um, accept the case, this time about elephants, is Hawaii, and that'll be coming up in November.
  
  They'll be arguing the case of a number of elephants in a zoo, the Honolulu Zoo. Um, uh, it's Mari and Vaigai are the names of the elephants. Uh, they're trying to get them transferred to a sanctuary, and that'll come up in November, so that's something to look forward to.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Something to look forward to and something we will stay on top of.
  
  Um, so here's my shameless plug. I was interviewed by, uh, by a podcast called The Animal Liberation Hour, and it came out this past week, so we will link to it for those of you who are interested in... Actually, we do talk about the word compassion in it, uh, toward the beginning, in fact.
  
  And we talk about a lot of the way I think that animal activism has shifted over the years as well as, uh, the importance of storytelling and putting a narrative into advocacy, whether that's a person's narrative or an animal's narrative or some blend of both. So we'll link to that in the show notes.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I should say that if I wasn't clear, you don't hate compassion itself, you just don't like the word. In case people are now thinking, "What is she, a psychopath?"
  
  Jasmin Singer: I, and I use it, I do use it because I see that it does, it does check a box.
  
  Mariann Sullivan: Yeah
  
  Jasmin Singer: I just think it... I, sometimes when I'm doing my, my writing coaching, I encourage people, if I see that they're using the same word over and over, whether it's compassion or kindness, I will as an activity encourage them to rewrite that paragraph or that page without once saying that word.
  
  Because I think it's important to really get in touch with the meaning behind it. What are you holding up right now?
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I have one announcement. It's a book. Um, it's called Penelope: A Love Story. It's by Paul Bachner. I ha- This is one of those books that I haven't read. I haven't read it yet. I'm not sure I'm going to read it 'cause I, books about animals just break my heart too frequently. Though this is not, I, I don't, I'm not saying this is a sad book.
  
  I just think it's probably deeply, deeply moving. And it's about, um, this guy, I think he lived in, well, upstate New York, but not very far upstate, and this, this, this, uh, very broken, um, uh, baby deer showed up in his life and they formed a relationship, and, uh, the relationship has lasted, I think, a long time.
  
  And, um, I'm sure it's beautiful, and I'm just pathe- I, I, I... It takes a lot for me to read a book about, that's very moving about animals. I, I, I, but I, I highly recommend it to you all. I don't know whether Paul is vegan, but, um, he should be. I
  
  Jasmin Singer: But now the book is...
  
  Mariann Sullivan: And he might be. He might be. I just don't know.
  
  Jasmin Singer: We will link to it. It does look really good. I was flipping through it and I think it looks really
  
  Mariann Sullivan: I did re- I mean, like I read the first chapter just to see like, you know, whether I wanted to recommend it, and he, he's a good writer. It's very moving.
  
  Jasmin Singer: Alright. We will link to the book, Penelope, in the show notes. And I think that's about it for us. Don't forget that Rising Anxieties comes out on Tuesday, The Hen Report, that's this, on Thursdays, the long form interview on Fridays. Bonus content for Flock members comes out on Mondays. Next week is the monthly Animal Law podcast as well.
  
  So don't forget to hit subscribe wherever you listen or watch, and leave a comment. We do love those comments.
  
  And we will talk to you tomorrow.
  
  ⇧ Close Transcript

_____________________________________________

Thank you for listening to the Our Hen House podcast! If you enjoy our podcasts, believe in our mission to effectively mainstream the movement to end the exploitation of animals, find community and solace in our shows and resources, and would like to show your support for vegan indie media, please make a donation today.

Contributions of any amount will go towards our fundraising goal and are hugely appreciated. Our Hen House is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, so it’s tax-deductible. Thank you for helping us create quality content!

Subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or your favorite podcatcher, and don’t forget to leave a 5-star review!

Check out Our Hen House’s other podcasts: The Animal Law Podcast, The Teaching Jasmin How to Cook Vegan Podcast, and the Antiracism in Animal Advocacy Audio Series.

The Our Hen House theme song is written and performed by Michael Harren.

The Hen Report: “Giant Mainstream Numbers” | Animal Rights Weekly News

RESOURCES

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Undercover Videos, Vegan Supermarket Fantasies, and A Water Fight Nobody Asked For | Rising Anxieties

Uncovering Miranda’s Rescue: Jennifer Raymond on the Humboldt County Dog “Rescue” Scandal

You may also like